Compass Sport Cup & Trophy 2014

[DaveR]

Although I've been going on about the trophy clubs that didn't make a full team, there was also a big group of clubs that haven't entered the competition at all. Any thoughts as to why this is? Many of them are in Scotland. Does Scotland need two heats due to the travel times? The other clubs that didn't go are peripheral - Cumbria, North/Mid Wales, far south of England. Maybe travel time is the reason for these clubs as well?

I strongly suspect that the reason many of these clubs haven't entered the competition is down to the location and timing of the final:

Saturday 8 November 2014 organised by SN on Long Valley North

There are various reasons why the final is when it is, but trying to get a team from Scotland to Long Valley for a Saturday morning start will be quite a challenge for any Scottish or other "peripheral" clubs that choose to go. I think this, rather than travel time to the heats, is the main issue.

[Blonde bombshell]

The Sat final south of London is a definite dis-incentive for the (far) northern clubs.
I know of some clubs who were treating the heat as a final having decided not to attend the final in Nov if they qualified.

Not very inclusive.

[graeme]

True for us last year and this year. We figured we couldn't get a full team to the final, so it would be rude to deny others the chance. In the past when we were less well organised we had to all run the wrong courses at the qualifier to make sure we didn't get through.

Date and location isn't particularly bad - it has to be somewhere and somewhen and Long Valley is an OK area and "just" a flight away. I think any place south of the lakes would be too far for us to get 13 counters (given the restrictions on who can score...).

[smf]

Here's the full list of clubs that didn't go. Apologies if I've got any of these wrong. It includes 4 'cup' clubs, ESOC, WCOC, GRAMP and MAROC.

Yes you are wrong GRAMP and MAROC did take part in the SOA round, we (ESOC) didn't take part in the competition, but our members still participated as the event was also part of the South of Scotland Orienteering League. The location of the final is the reason we didn't enter the CSC as we would not be able to have a full team.

[dch]

No Northern Ireland clubs either. Are they part of the competition?

There used to be a competition similar to the CSC in Ireland called the TIO Trophy which included clubs from Northern Ireland. Supposedly the winner of the TIO trophy could enter the CSC final, although I cannot recollect this ever happening (and sometimes the dates would have made it impractical in any case).

I think that the TIO Trophy was discontinued a few years ago, however there is still some information about it on the IOA website which indicates that "the winning club is eligible to compete at the Compassport competition in Britain."

[SeanC]

I have edited the previous post. Apologies to GRAMP and MAROC.

The timing and distance to the 2014 final can't be the whole story though. For the 2013 Scottish heat I can count only 9 clubs with scoring club members. The BOF website has 18 open Scottish clubs listed.

Last years SOA results: http://www.marocscotland.org.uk/documen ... esults.pdf

I'm sure the SN event will be really good, definately well organised. Not much listed on the BOF fixtures list nearby on the Sunday though. Opportunity for a nearby club to move an event to that Sunday to help persuade more to come down? Or is something planned? I can only see a Langdon Hills colour coded event on the other side of London, and with the greatest respect for Basildon ...

[Happy]

I'm sure the SN event will be really good, definately well organised. Not much listed on the BOF fixtures list nearby on the Sunday though. Opportunity for a nearby club to move an event to that Sunday to help persuade more to come down?

I thought we were on the Saturday because this year's remembrance service was such a significant anniversary and that in general very few if any sporting events were going to be scheduled on the Sunday?

[Tatty]

I am sure that Happy is correct. The Sunday is not being used because of the specisl Remembrance Day events this year.
Incidently neither SOFA or WIGHTO would have enough members to enter the event. Suggest that Sean does his homework a little bit more before making such sweeping statements

[Jethro]

I have to agree with DaveR, that getting a team from Scotland down for a Saturday morning event is a bit of a problem. RR made the decision not to enter partly for that reason - and we are perhaps the closest of the Scottish clubs although possibly furthest from an airport. The other consideration was the fact that the final was so far south once again - it took a lot of commitment to get a team down last year and we felt it was stretching club loyalty to ask members to do it again so soon. Perhaps in future the CSC organisers should take more consideration of geographic spread when allocating the final. Having said all that I still think that attending the CSC/CST final is a very worthwhile effort for a club to make (if they can qualify) as it engenders great club spirit and a feeling of actually belonging to a club.

[mykind]

On another tack the entry instructions to club captains for Pately Bridge were 'Pre entry via Fabian 4 only'. Yet the fabian4 site shows only entries from Aire & LOC. Surely this means that CLOK, EBOR & SYO didn't enter a team!
CLOK, EBOR & SYO were able to see entries from AIRE & LOC, but not vice versa.
Would this have affected team entries?
Is this right & fair?

As the organising club we were put into a difficult position by clubs who wished to pay for their members entries which would clearly have been difficult if everyone entered via Fabian 4 so we agreed to take on some extra work ( not easy for a small club) and accept those club's entries as a CSF file sent directly to us. This saved those clubs some time and effort. I would agree that CLOK, EBOR and SYO could see AIRE's entries but they would have to have been up pretty late on the closing day to respond to LOC's which all went up that day. I really doubt very much if clubs were adjusting their entry in response to the distribution of their rivals across courses. If this is indeed happening then it might be seen as gamesmanship ( I for one would see it as such) and club captains need to look at rule 6.1 "The spirit of fairness and good fellowship is to be the guiding principle in all aspects of the sport, including the interpretation of these Rules." . We now seem to be being attacked for simply trying to ease some clubs' administrative burden.
The views expressed here are mine and do not represent Claro as a club.

Mike Hind (Planner at Guisecliff)

[SeanC]

Incidently neither SOFA or WIGHTO would have enough members to enter the event. Suggest that Sean does his homework a little bit more before making such sweeping statements

Homework only extended to reporting the list of clubs who didn't enter. I'm relying on Nopesport to tell me why.

WIGHTO have 9 ranked members, so perhaps we could say "WIGHTO would have enough members to enter the event if we abolished the max counters rule for trophy clubs"

[greywolf]

Here's the full list of clubs that didn't go. Apologies if I've got any of these wrong. It includes 2 'cup' clubs, ESOC and WCOC.
SOFA WIGHTO ERYRI MWOC BARRO WCOC - (cup) BASOC ESOC - (cup) INT INVOC
MOR RR SOLWAY TINTO WAROC

MOR have been so successful in developing the club's membership in recent years that under the current rules they are now a "big" club and would have to enter the cup not the trophy. However the demographics of that membership ( almost all 40-60 or 14 and under ) are such that it would be pretty much impossible to put together a full team without significant running up.

I don't think MOR have ever entered, so the event isn't really on the club's radar, but it wouldn't have helped that the heat was >3hrs away.

[Sunlit Forres]

However the demographics of that membership ( almost all 40-60 or 14 and under ) are such that it would be pretty much impossible to put together a full team without significant running up.

I don't think anyone on the MOR committee seriously considered suggesting entering the CSC. Factors include the impracticality of getting a competitive team to either the heat or the final, the current demographics of the club, and the considerable o-travel commitments of some of our high-performing members. Hence it was never mentioned in any committee meeting. Something for the future perhaps, if the club continues to develop.

The club sets priorities, No 1 being the Jamie Stevenson Trophy (annual Scottish Inter-club junior comp) where we usually manage to fill a luxury coach with kids.

[Big Jon]

If a Maroc member wins the lottery and is feeling generous then we might attempt to get a team to the final - eg chartering a plane or train. If not then we won't be coming. The length of travel, the club age make-up (lots of juniors and 40-60s), the general lack of experience of most club members and the fact we would be competing against clubs with 4 or 5 times our membership all these count against us attending - other priorities for the club members' finite effort.

[AndyC]

On another tack the entry instructions to club captains for Pately Bridge were 'Pre entry via Fabian 4 only'. Yet the fabian4 site shows only entries from Aire & LOC. Surely this means that CLOK, EBOR & SYO didn't enter a team!
CLOK, EBOR & SYO were able to see entries from AIRE & LOC, but not vice versa.
Would this have affected team entries?
Is this right & fair?

As the organising club we were put into a difficult position by clubs who wished to pay for their members entries which would clearly have been difficult if everyone entered via Fabian 4 so we agreed to take on some extra work ( not easy for a small club) and accept those club's entries as a CSF file sent directly to us. This saved those clubs some time and effort. I would agree that CLOK, EBOR and SYO could see AIRE's entries but they would have to have been up pretty late on the closing day to respond to LOC's which all went up that day. I really doubt very much if clubs were adjusting their entry in response to the distribution of their rivals across courses. If this is indeed happening then it might be seen as gamesmanship ( I for one would see it as such) and club captains need to look at rule 6.1 "The spirit of fairness and good fellowship is to be the guiding principle in all aspects of the sport, including the interpretation of these Rules." . We now seem to be being attacked for simply trying to ease some clubs' administrative burden.
The views expressed here are mine and do not represent Claro as a club.

Mike Hind (Planner at Guisecliff)

Mike - too late for this year (but it might help others) Last year I was the organiser for the NE round and I took direct payments/entries from a number of the competing clubs - but I was able to put them up onto Fabian (wthout being charged) -which I think solves the vsibility issue to some degree