Shock! Horror!

[LostAgain]

What an un-inclusive elitist bunch you are.

In the 1980's, when folks actually turned up to a british, you would typically have had 65 M21 competitors running the longest course, and around 320 who didn't.

It is the 320 who have gradually, and insidiously, been made to feel that they don't belong there.

Thats why the British has declined, and the six day hasn't.

You may be right.
However, if orienteering is to take itself seriously surely the British Champs by it's purpose will be elitist?
I have little to no chance of troubling the prize presenters personally. However, I do think the top guys & ladies should be given the opportunity to race for the crown. Historically this has been inclusive, often to the detriment of the event.
Maybe the new fee structure for this British Champs will succeed in making it more elitist, not sure it was an intention though.

[Paul Frost]

I think you miss the point. The people turning up to run the colour coded courses at the British Champs and JK have already deliberately decided that they do not want to take part.

I guess it depends of if you think the British Championships should only be for those good enough to possibly win something. The very large majority are just participating, they will not be winning medals or prizes and many will just be happy to have got round without making and major errors.
So if we want them to be just for the top end of each age class then that's fine and the championships can become a niche event and quietly die. If those non-performers are not welcome and their entry fees not needed to subsidise the championships for the minority then there isn't a problem.
Events like the Scottish 6 Days, the Lakes 5 and Croeso etc. will flourish, because they supply a quality orienteering experience for the vast majority of orienteers who will never stand on the podium, but who enjoy running round forests (and even towns sometimes).

[awk]

What an un-inclusive elitist bunch you are.
In the 1980's, when folks actually turned up to a british, you would typically have had 65 M21 competitors running the longest course, and around 320 who didn't.
It is the 320 who have gradually, and insidiously, been made to feel that they don't belong there.
Thats why the British has declined, and the six day hasn't.

Well, I was one of that 320, and I'm still here. Not once have I ever been made to believe I didn't belong. The reasons the British is a smaller event are, I suspect, somewhat more complex than you suggest. British numbers at the 6-day are less now than they were in the late 1990s. This has been offset by a healthy increase in the numbers of foreign competitors, so, again, your explanation looks to be rather simplistic, and may even be erroneous.

The British Championships is not a holiday event: that is the role of events like the Six Day and, to perhaps a lesser extent, the JK. It has a different role to play. The problem is that an out and out championship might have an issue with numbers versus cost, so a model whereby those who don't (for whatever reason) wish to compete in the championships but are interested in a run, at a smaller cost to maintain attraction, seems to be a sensible solution, helping keep the cost of the entry fees down all round, surely an inclusive rather than exclusive measure.

In our family, I am interested in competing in the championship, and am likely to enter my age class. OH, a regular S class competitor, sees the availability of a colour coded course at a cheaper price as a much better proposition than an S class entry at considerably more - her wants are much more about the experience of orienteering in the forest than the competition (but is still able to compete against like minded others). Inclusive, or exclusive elitist?

Incidentally, having just entered the Swiss 6-day, a holiday event, there is only one course per age class (apart from the open and H/D40). Last time, as an H45, I ran Men's A Short (HAK) along with a right mixture of ages, a much better solution in my view than a myriad of smaller groupings. Inclusive or exclusive elitist?

[aiming off]

You run long at the British, AWK, hence still feel welcome.

I run short and enjoy the age class competition with my peers, but increasingly feel I shouldn't be there, given the developing attitudes.

[SeanC]

I hope you're not taking the opinions of nopesport as being representative of orienteers aiming off?

It's always easy to argue that a particular group should pay less, which in this case means giving less to BOF, without the explanation of where the shortfall in money is going to be made up. Increased membership fees? Increased levies at local/regional events? Some new form of taxation that will cause a row?

Personally I think BOF need more money not less, to provide services to clubs and regions that will make the sport more popular, more exciting, and ultimately cheaper for everyone.

[awk]

You run long at the British, AWK, hence still feel welcome.

I run short and enjoy the age class competition with my peers, but increasingly feel I shouldn't be there, given the developing attitudes.

I've only run the L class at the British for the past couple of years. Prior to that, I have run the S for pretty much all of my time as a vet, excepting a couple of years in the late 1990s. As an M21, I never ran the Elite (although did a couple of times at the JK) and, indeed, have run as far down as M21C (recovering from injury on that occasion!). In all that time, I've never felt less than welcome.

As an S class runner, I always felt that the main race was in the L at the British Long Distance Championships, and could never understand why prizes were awarded in the S. I still feel that. Equally, I could never understand why a trophy was awarded in M21A (as it was in my time) - it isn't now.

[mykind]

Personally I think BOF need more money not less, to provide services to clubs and regions that will make the sport more popular, more exciting, and ultimately cheaper for everyone.

Well it is hard to argue with that. if you could just run past me exactly which services we are currently in receipt of I will feel that my £25 entry fee has been well used.

[RS]

Just to throw something else in the mix, hopefully we will get a good proportion of our 'proper' 21 elites entering unlike previous years with Tio Mila clashes and this should heighten the atmosphere of the competition.

[graeme]

I could never understand why a trophy was awarded in M21A (as it was in my time) - it isn't now.

Possibly because you couldn't enter M21E - you had to be selected. The winner of M21A was normally running the top course they were allowed to do. So IMO a prize was more appropriate then than now.

But this "not welcome" business is a load of posturing nobody who gives a moment's thought could take seriously. We go to the British, have a run around, meet with old friends from round the country, interact briefly with polite volunteer officials who treat us the same if we're 21E or 50S. There's nobody in charge of being welcoming to elites or unwelcoming to the rest.

[NeilC]

There's nobody in charge of being welcoming to elites or unwelcoming to the rest.

Actually quite a few recent Championships have tried to make the elite races more visible for example by having an arena start (eg at BOC last year) etc.

However I agree that none of the major events that I've been involved with recently have attempted to discriminate between L/S A/B runners other than in the lack of medals. Commentary for example has always given S/B runners air time as they come in, not simply ignored them.

[madmike]

Commentary for example has always given S/B runners air time as they come in, not simply ignored them.

Well that's because the commentators are mainly broken and run short courses themselves

[AndyC]

I think you can also consider that the commentators had to run S in order to be back in tme to commentate and that the slower speed of some older (or fatter like myself) orienteers gives more time for their identity to be looked up and announced

[andypat]

And in your case Andy they can see you coming from further away!

[Tatty]

Not sure what Mharky feels about these comments! At least he was injured when he commentated?

[DaveK]

But this "not welcome" business is a load of posturing nobody who gives a moment's thought could take seriously. We go to the British, have a run around, meet with old friends from round the country, interact briefly with polite volunteer officials who treat us the same if we're 21E or 50S. There's nobody in charge of being welcoming to elites or unwelcoming to the rest.

Spot on graeme. Certainly why we usually go, though saying that, it's a bit too far north (and a bit too expensive) for us this year.