The Men Who Own Scotland

[Freefall]

On BBC 1 Scotland tonight (1035 pm) it looks like there will be an interesting programme about land ownership. MSP and Environment Minister Paul Wheelhouse (who incidentally has been helpful to the SOA in a current discussion about access to free LiDAR data) was quoted in The Sunday Times and seems to have stirred things up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-25647169
Generally in Scotland we enjoy good relationships with landowners. For 2015 Lord Moray (Darnaway) is Patron of WOC and orienteering is well regarded compared to many outdoor activities. There are exceptions, and for a few prime areas we have been unable to gain access for organised events despite what the Land Reform Act may say. I will watch with interest (assuming I find my way out of the forest at MAROC's night event).

[martin]

For the amateur mapper, Lidar data is now free from the environment agency.
Yesterday I downloaded 2km by 2km at 0.25m resolution. DTM data to get the contours and the ditches, and DSM data to get the vegetation height to locate those pesky clearings etc. Cost 1200pounds minus 100% discount = nothing.

[Freefall]

I noted the 100% discount on the email that went round from the Mapping Group. I will mention this to sportscotland. We were stopped using LiDAR here (Scotland) because the permitted purpose was flood risk assessment so a new agreement has to come in place. Still need permission to run on areas though (but if it is just a small group you can run anywhere in theory - but we prefer to keep things cordial)

[Jethro]

Well that was a waste of time!
Conclusion - "It isn't fair that you own something I don't!"

[Freefall]

A big topic crammed into too short a period. Your conclusion is about right!

[EddieH]

That is exactly what I thought Jethro. If I can't have it why should you?

[Big Jon]

Where I live was a small estate in Deeside - in the '90's it was sold to a development company in Edinburgh, they split it up and sold it in parts - since then there have been 1 new house built (recently extended), the main old farmhouse being renovated section by section and now housing 5 or 6 people, 2 major steading conversions to houses, 2 rebuilds of existing houses - both leading to much larger properties, 2 major extensions and 1 new build that is still underway. The previous owners of the estate could never have afforded to do this and probably would never have been interested as the properties would not be the sort anyone would rent for huge sums. I guess there has been in excess of £2million spent by home owners on this work and now there are 12 or so houses in the area that are permanently inhabited.
Around Deeside the areas with fewest inhabitants are the big estates - eg Dunecht, Invercauld. There are large numbers of derelict houses here - but the land-owners (for what-ever reason) aren't interested in either selling the properties or renovating themselves, so they sit and rot, then collapse.
Enforced sales of unused properties would bring people back into these areas (plenty of people want to live in the sticks up here), probably using local builders, tradesmen etc and would help local shop, POs etc.

[greywolf]

Fairness was an odd line to take, given that for most of those campiagning for Land Reform the motivation is building a sustainable future rather than redressing past injustice, but even so, the questions could have been framed more effectively, e.g. Is it fair that an individual can control vast estates (and all those who live there) just because his great great great great great great great great great grandfather gave James IV a blowie? And is it fair that these individuals have, over the years, used their position to rig the system to minimise their tax burden whilst coining in the best part of a billion quid a year in subsidies from the rest of us? Whilst he was there, the journalist could have asked Christopher Moran about the Cabrach's reputation as hotspot for wildlife crime, his apparent 30-year campiagn to depopulate the estate or his refusal to sell a third of an acre ("even for £1M") to allow the extension of the village cemetery. Maybe too he might have pondered what exactly independence will achieve if the same few hundred individuals, many of them absentees, still own most of the country...

[Jethro]

Greywolf - you start of by saying that

Fairness was an odd line to take

then immediately contradict yourself by saying

Is it fair that an individual can control vast estates ... blah, blah, blah

Lots of things in life in general aren't "fair" depending on your stand point. Somebody has to "own" the land - have legal control over it so to speak. As far as I am aware we aren't a communist state where everything belongs to the people. I can't think of anything worse than a committee of politicians and civil servants or some government quango running the countryside. My family have been tenant farmers on the same farm on one of the largest estates in the country since 1870. I would like to own my farm but I definitely don't think it is "fair" that I should be able to knock on the Duke of Buccleuch's door and demand that he sells HIS land to me. This absolute right to buy is one of the things being touted around in the current land reform proposals. Not surprisingly estates owners have retreated into their shells and the supply of farms to let has all but dried up. There are doubtless "bad" landowners, just as there are "bad" farmers, lawyers, doctors, teachers etc etc. There is I am sure a far higher percentage of "good" landowners and changing the system for changes sake isn't going to improve that balance. In some ways better the devil you know than the devil you don't! As regards derelict properties, there is a minefield of rules and regulations regarding housing in the country. Even simple things like,who is responsible for the water supply if there is no mains water, is a nightmare. I could go on.................

[AndyO]

So what form of land reform would you advocate, Jethro?

[mappingmum]

One chapter of "Blossom" by the journalist Lesley Riddoch raises the challenges faced by land ownership in Scotland and proposes some solutions along with the benefits of smaller holdings. It's a really interesting read.

[AndyO]

I agree mappingmum. A well considered book offering real insight and alternatives to a number of aspects of life in Scotland. Land reform is a particularly thought provoking section of the book.

[Jethro]

Thought this was interesting. Slightly off topic but relevant to land use none the less - http://www.snh.gov.uk/protecting-scotla ... d/mapping/