Is traditional orienteering dying?

[SeanC]

9 out of 20 DFOK entries for the Saxons event are members of running clubs, and to varying degrees go to running (ie non O) races or running club training.

RedAdder - I think your view (probably quite commonly shared) is too black and white. Hard core runners, dedicated to competing at a high level, possibly yes, but there is a massive range. Go to local parkruns and most people are not members of running clubs. Many more are casual joggers who don't compete. Get only a small percentage of these to do orienteering and it can make a big impact.

Anyway I'm not talking about offering another orienteering course, I'm talking about offering a running race at an orienteering event to generate income and subsidise traditional orienteering. Advertise it as "Suffolk Slog" whatever. Orienteering scares people, but running is in people's comfort zone. If some of these try a TD3 red or whatever the next year or next event, then that's a bonus.

A modest target of 50 runners at 15 EAOA events @ £7 = over £5000. There must be some development initiatives that could use the money. Some more local events, or junior coaching/ junior squad subsidy for all those keen juniors at EAOA district events?

[graeme]

The truth of the matter is simple. Most runners do not want to orienteer.

True but irrelevant, as you can see by substituting any other group for "runners" (apart from "orienteers", obviously). e.g.

The truth of the matter is simple. Most families do not want to orienteer.
The truth of the matter is simple. Most children do not want to orienteer.
The truth of the matter is simple. Most pensioners do not want to orienteer.

The relevant fact, as Sean says, is that a larger fraction of runners will enjoy orienteering than the fraction of the population as a whole. That's why they're worth targeting with competitive events where they aren't asked "to risk injury by running through areas with undergrowth". Of course, we know that this risk is very low, and once people see that for themselves they're ready to move up.

[roadrunner]

That's why they're worth targeting with competitive events where they aren't asked "to risk injury by running through areas with undergrowth". Of course, we know that this risk is very low, and once people see that for themselves they're ready to move up.

Not sure I'd agree there - I sprained my ankle many times in forest orienteering, compared to one minor muscle sprain in years of road running.

[Freefall]

The President of the Scottish Orienteering Association (one of my many bosses) reports he dislocated his shoulder on the Glasgow Parks event at the weekend!

[andypat]

Thats a shame for Roger. Hope he gets better soon. If its any consolation I also suffered a substantial bruise to my ego.

[aiming off]

I don't think traditional orienteering SHOULD be dying.

At it's best, (JK, 6 Day, O Ringen) its holding up very well.

And in amongst the diversification to a range of formats, traditional events held in reasonably good forests account for less than 20% of the events held in my four adjacent regions this year, but attracted over 55% of overall participation runs.

This weekend I went to one of these typical forest events, with twice the attendance of the Glasgow park events, but importantly with three times the number of under 18's. I wish we spent more time as a sport trying to improve the quality of offering for juniors at traditional events, as opposed to just trying different formats.

[Kitch]

aiming off's numbers suggest that people are interested in specific things.
they will turn up to race in good terrain - "lovely" forest TD5
they will turn up for an interesting / social format - eg Glasgow Parks
they will turn up for a reason
but will be less tempted by a run of the mill trot round some average bit of woodland.
There are after all other sides to life so maybe visiting granny will take precedence over a mud n' bramble TD3 in December

So,
Give people a reason to want to attend.
quality (which may take many forms) as opposed to quantity.
(someone recently noted 3 events close togethr on one weekend and nothing the next )

[Sunlit Forres]

Most runners do not want to orienteer

I think that's generally true, but not exclusively. Many decent runners do find it too frustrating, but others find the additional challenge eye-opening. I came in to orienteering as a runner. I was OK, but nothing exceptional, with a half marathon PB of just under 80 mins. When I took 2 hrs 30 for a proper TD5 Blue course on my first outing, I was hooked by the challenge of trying to improve. At first I couldn't get my head around how people could run so fast through terrain.

I think that orienteers could help to endear themselves to the running community by taking part in running events representing their O Club when the opportunity arises. If already in a running club, use your O club as your athletics club now and again, if the rules allow it. At many smaller events up here you can put whatever you like as your "club".

The more visible we are within the running community, the better our sport will become known and understood. Runners might be more likely to attend an O race, knowing that there will be familiar faces at the event.

[AncientFootsteps]

There is a hint of the Test cricket vs Twenty20 debate in the way street O seems more popular than the traditional just now. Presumably there is room for multiple formats and they could all boost each other by attracting new converts (rather than competing for the same pool of participants).

Though it was disappointing last month to get fewer than 100 orienteers turn up for a level C event in challenging woodland on a glorious clear and crisp autumn day (a poor return for all those hours of planning).

On the same day a X Country race 20 miles away attracted almost 300 (over 100 juniors). So runners don't mind getting muddy at least.

And there is the current craze for 'adventure races' which are oversubscribed charging big money for sado masochistic challenges - £50 to crawl through icy water while being electrocuted by overhead wires?

Do we just need some gimmick like that to attract folk into tough O - perhaps a poisonous snake at each control site? Any suggestions?

[graeme]

Any suggestions?

Charge £50.
Create an exciting atmosphere and arena.
Treat participants as customers, not potential recruits/volunteers.

(No, I'm not brave enough to do it either)

[usuallylast]

I haven't tried it, but Carlisle parkrun seems popular - and I can see why. Basic kit, nothing to learn or worry about, a nice social event with a bit of competition thrown in - maybe indoor changing/showering facilities. Of course they are also usually about the same time as our Saturday level D's - if you were committed and had good transport you could do both - but how many would? I'm not in a fell running club, but I assume they have weekend events, or training. If it's 'either/or', they are mostly going to stick with what they already enjoy.
I got into orienteering relatively late in life because my husband used to do it years ago and wanted to get back to it - once he had given up rugby and didn't always have other things happening on a weekend that is. I only had to try it once to know it was the sport for me - I had only done regular walking and a bit of casual road running before. Our son would give it a go but he's in retail and works evenings and weekends, as so many people do now. I don't think Orienteering is dying, but I do think there are far too many conflicting sports/activities/work commitments for it to be popular again in a big way, in it's 'traditional' format.
Someone mentioned parking - just out of curiosity, how do they manage with parking in places such as Sweden where O is more of a mainstream sport? Just a country with more suitable space full stop? People happy to be bussed?

[awk]

We're both orienteers who have grown up with 'traditional' orienteering, but who really enjoy urban events (as well as, not instead of!). Aside from the fun of a well planned course itself (often offering higher intensity and more interesting orienteering than our local 'terrain' can often provide, especially after so many years of running in the same terrain), there are other aspects that make them particularly enjoyable:
+ Often on Saturdays, which means public transport easier, and gives a day off after the race not before;
+ Usually easily accessible, often by public transport;
+ Usually easily accessible cafes, shops etc.;
+ Often a good, indoor, assembly. Even when it isn't indoors, it's usually hard standing;
+ Fewer courses/classes - better, more focused, competition;
+ Terrain is (almost!) always runnable (!);
+ Less risk of maps which are 'open to interpretation' (which helps balance occasional issues surrounding crossable/uncrossable boundaries etc.)

I'm sure there are others - these are just the ones that jump to mind.

[Knee Deep Mud!]

Often on Saturdays

This is probably the main contributing factor to my orienteering largely being urban over the last few years.

On the average Sunday I have to make the choice between one of a number of different things, and much as I'd like to, it is impossible to do everything, and apart from a few major events, (forest) orienteering has largely lost out as a result.

On Saturdays there are normally no clashes, so the decision on whether to go generally boils down to how easy it is to get to the event. The result - a lot more urban orienteering. The public transport options available for saturday urban events also count in the favour of this type of event.

I only hope that the trend being set by events such as the London City Race of moving to a Sunday does not spread, otherwise I will probably end up doing little if any orienteering of any sort (forest or urban)

[Tatty]

I believe London was moved because of getting permissions

[Kitch]

London moved !!
that wasn't in the news.
Where to ? The midlands would save money on HS2 I guess