Time to ditch age classes?

[Nimby]

I'm surprised more people don't see the problem with newcomers. When I talk to newcomers I'd rather not have to ask their age as one of the first questions.

If you feel there is an issue here, why ask them? Do you actually need this bit of information from newcomers?

You need to know if they are senior or junior to calculate the levy.

[graeme]

the winner of my course is only an M16

Who is most likely to be 15. But might be 14 or 16, or maybe a good 10, 11, 12 or 13 year old running up.

good really for an M60!

.... though you might not actually be 60 yet.

I don't have a problem with people who want to declare their age, but all we need to know is "adult" or "child", and technically any adult who wants to be 21 can register as such (if they're 34 or less they may have to!). There might be more incentive to listing people by quality (M21 E/A/B/C/N) which might be an incentive scheme like the parkrun "PB" or "50" flags.

[sketchweppers]

Is it time to ditch age classes on events that aren't age class competitions (ie your bog standard level C and D events)? I can think of a few reasons to get rid of them, but few for retaining them. What do you think?

Level C events are ranked, so if you include your BOF number when registering, your YOB is then included in the results list on the BOF website anyway! That is even more revealing than your age class.

Personally I like to see age classes on results, but if a newcomer turns up and doesn't know what to put in the age class box it is not a problem - they just leave it blank. Or perhaps if they go round a course as a pair or a group, we just put pair or group for the age class. It has never been an issue for me when manning registration at a level D event. Nobody has ever taken offence.

[AndyC]

I'm in favor of ages being in the results - one challenge for me is to make sure that no-one older beats me (don't always manage it).
As for newcomers -some clubs (including NATO sometimes) have part of the entry process being filling in a form with your details including age group - problem solved.
If doing entries I have to ask verbally - the guys never mind, the kids are often proud to tell me (or their parents are) and for the ladies it gives me a chance to use some phrase like " As a gentleman I shouldn't ask a lady her age but...."

[Red Adder]

Considering now relatively few people actually orienteer we have far more classes than needed. Leave the junior as is and then have just three adult M/W classes

senior 21-40
veteran 40 - 60
super-vet 60+

most sports, including those with higher levels of participation, don't bother with the absurd degree of age granularity we do. Do we really need so many winners ? Surely being vet champion in a field of 100 is more meaningful than say M55 in a field of 20, especially as several of the best in the class may have run up.

[aiming off]

IMO it is the move away from provision of age classes that has had a significant impact the decline of many former "flagship events"

The events that have retained age classes, not only the Scottish 6 day and JK, but also the November Classic, have retained their numbers over the last 10 years.

Other "flagship events" that have moved to primarily being colour coded, with age group competitors smeared across the various colour coded courses, are now typically attracting well under 50% of their peak numbers, drawing on a competitor base from a much smaller catchment area.

[Red Adder]

Were all our flagship events really so ? Once the standard of colour coded events went up significantly with E-punching and pre-printed maps far fewer events really stood out above the throng, despite the attempt to portray them as such with the Cat B designation. A few events in terms of quality of terrain, courses and competition have merited their superior status and have kept numbers up. An several of us nopers at the time realised and pointed out in this forum many such events would in reality be no better than the enhanced colour coded now offered and in truth the Cat B was being used to justify charging a premium price, not to denote a premium product.

[EddieH]

I think you both have a point. But I know my other half is relly annoyed at appearing near the bottom of green as she has no interest in comparing her result with young men. With the ease of providing alternative sorts it seems sensible to offer results both by colour and by age class (for those competitions that people enter by age such as SOLs). My partner is undoubtedly demotivated by the course result list.

If Red Adder is seriously suggesting having 60+ as the final age, he clearly has not reached tha age when every year slows you down. Sadly ts not just physical but I find the ability to pick up a map, spot where I am and rush off is not a fraction of what it was.

[SJC]

most sports, including those with higher levels of participation, don't bother with the absurd degree of age granularity we do.

Masters Swimming and Age Group Triathlon are both growing in numbers, and both use five year age bands.

Surely being vet champion in a field of 100 is more meaningful than say M55 in a field of 20

Except that the chance of the top M55 beating the top M40 is close to zero, so the competition becomes meaningless to the older half of the field.

[Red Adder]

Sadly Eddie I can assure that I am all too aware of the problems of ageing - I just don't expect a proliferation of age classes to allow me to always be competitive, but appreciate that organisers put on a wide enough range of courses to allow me enjoy a morning in the woods,

[Roger]

Competitors value age classes.
I'm not convinced that they cause detriment to punters.
Keep them.

[Gnitworp]

I just don't expect a proliferation of age classes to allow me to always be competitive,

but you'll get it

[madmike]

Competitors value age classes.
I'm not convinced that they cause detriment to punters.
Keep them.

I agree - SeanC what is the actual problem are you trying to fix by ditching age classes?

[EddieH]

What an extraordinary statement Red Adder "I just don't expect a proliferation of age classes to allow me to always be competitive, but appreciate that organisers put on a wide enough range of courses to allow me enjoy a morning in the woods,"

Who is asking the organisers to put on extra courses? Simply publish age related results. It is marginal effort compared with getting the equipment to and from the event, organising helpers .......

No-one could reasonably accuse me of pot hunting - I generally only run my age class in the most major races, and didn't start doing that until much older than most. However I am aware that most older competitors do want to run against their chronological peers.

I can never get my head round why some people are so against allowing them the chance of glory, albeit no prize, just the pleasure of winning.

[roadrunner]

As for newcomers -some clubs (including NATO sometimes) have part of the entry process being filling in a form with your details including age group - problem solved.

BKO does that as well: dead easy, and speeds things up if a lot of people turn up at once since the data can be typed into the computer later. If someone doesn't give an age category, then the sensible default is M/W21.

I just don't expect a proliferation of age classes to allow me to always be competitive,

There's nothing wrong with showing (say) 5-year age categories in the results but having competition in (say) 10-year groupings: indeed, many urban races do just that.