JEC 2013

[graeme]

Anyone actually want to talk about the results?

Been avoiding that one, but since you ask...

No top-10s and most of the selected in the bottom half might suggest Sarah was right that the next tranche of non-selected people wouldn't be good enough.

Less contentiously, there's not much we can say sitting at home looking at a list of names and numbers. Most of us have no idea what represents a good or bad run for a particular athlete: I can imagine our two regular elite posters mharky and housewife responding very differently to being congratulated on finishing 20th at WOC.

I'd love to hear your views on how it panned out.

[SJC]

No top-10s and most of the selected in the bottom half

Ben Maliphant commented on the valuable experience of running in the international competition when he said, “This was a great experience for me to be here and able to run against the best in my age group in Europe. It opens your eyes to how good everyone else is and this will help with my motivation to aim high.”

Isn't this what JEC is supposed to be about ? Will Ben run better at next year's JWOC (if selected) based on his experience here. I would like to think so. If you only send people likely to win a medal to this type of event then your talent pool slowly gets smaller and smaller.

[awk]

Anyone actually want to talk about the results?

No top-10s and most of the selected in the bottom half might suggest Sarah was right that the next tranche of non-selected people wouldn't be good enough.

Jamie Stevenson (the one who turned out to be a world champion) finished at the back end of JWOC and (I think) at the Six Nations, the predecessor to JEC. At the time he commented on how valuable the experience was. One instance, I know, but illustrative. He's certainly not the only one who has been lowly as a junior at this level, and come through to greater things. The opposite also: I can think of several juniors who, for various reasons, had success at this level, but never made it at senior level. Trying to predict from junior to senior can be a bit of a mug's game.

[King Penguin]

If you only send people likely to win a medal to this type of event then your talent pool slowly gets smaller and smaller.

If every nation only sends those likely to win a medal then participation would be so small that no-one would be prepared to organise. I am in the camp of "you must give those with potential the opportunity to learn from participation in such internationals, as part of increasing their chances of an even better result in future years, and enabling them to judge what improvement is required."

[graeme]

So my son would like to go next year. It would be a great experience for him, and its obviously far too soon to tell whether he'll become a top M21.

Can someone tell me where to send the cheque?

[Vidalos]

But when you see other nations sending juniors on from previous events like EYOC and even Interland with France and Belgium, and where our Juniors have competed well against them in the past why have British Orienteering not done the same ?

I suspect this episode was more to do with funding and available people to support the event than with not having capable juniors in this age group. It's easier to say they were not capable than unable to support/fund them

[bewildered]

I don't think that lack of funds is a good reason to not select people to go to an event (and we don't know if this was the case). If people are good enough to go they should be selected and offered the chance to find the money.

This is obviously different from finding out who has the money to go and then selecting them.

British Orienteering has a very limited pool of potential athletes. The selection processes have to take into account that it is easy to demotivate them and hard to get the motivation back.

If I had gone to Scotland as an M/W18 thinking there was the chance of getting selected, performed well and then gets told no-one is going, I would be miffed in the extreme.

[Gross]

If I had gone to Scotland as an M/W18 thinking there was the chance of getting selected, performed well and then gets told no-one is going, I would be miffed in the extreme.

I doubt an M/W18 would use the term 'miffed in the extreme'

[graeme]

If people are good enough to go they should be selected and offered the chance to find the money.

yup, and as you said earlier...

SH thought that no-one else was good enough.

And in terms of results, she's been vindicated.

You and I might have different ideas as to who is good enough to benefit from the experience. Like awk said, it may not be the people currently getting top results. My son would definitely benefit so should he definitely go next year.

PS What's happened to the "elites shouldn't race out of season in the autumn" brigade?

[Gross]

PS What's happened to the "elites shouldn't race out of season in the autumn" brigade?

Errrrr..... are not most of the National Champs in the Autumn & I do believe there was a World Cup recently....

[keever]

I've obviously missed something. WHY do our juniors need to be "good enough" for JEC?
Does a "bad" performance somehow reflect badly on GBR?
Why not just pick enough of the best we have (possibly without those who are already in other international teams) to fill a team?
If they can afford to go, great.

[Vidalos]

If people are good enough to go they should be selected and offered the chance to find the money.

yup, and as you said earlier...

SH thought that no-one else was good enough.

And in terms of results, she's been vindicated.

[quote]

How vindicated ???

Why retain people or introduce people to the Talent Development Programme with the purpose of (from BO) Talent Development Squad - is the entry point for athletes on to British Orienteering’s Talent and Performance Pathway and athletes are expected to confirm that they possess the required foundation of sport-specific skills and then progress to in-depth specialisation .

It doesn't say it "is expected to achieve results" as for the Elite and Performance squads. And if it's about development why not use the developmental opportnities available. And if as SH says no one else was good enough why are they in the Talent Develop Squad then ?

SH is only vindicated if no one is even good enough for Development, as that is the stated purpose of the squad at this level

[buzz]

Anyone actually want to talk about the results? Nobody cares about who can bitch about BO the most. The athletes who have gone have tried their hardest in the situations/terrains given to them

Actually Will a lot of people do care a lot about what is happening with the Talent Squad at the moment. I don't think anyone is criticizing the selected athletes for not trying their hardest, but some athletes are being excluded unfairly, some are being poorly advised, some aren't getting the support they need and others are being put off the sport entirely.

If you're happy with the Talent Squad then good luck to you but there are a lot of very hard working and experienced people who think that we need some changes, so classifying healthy debate as bitching is perhaps a little disrespectful.

[WillG]

I'd love to hear your views on how it panned out.

Personally, I was pleased with my 11th place in the sprint. I went into JEC with my main focus on the sprint, and looking to improve on the JWOC result in this discipline; and coming out of it being 30 seconds off a medal, when I had a far from clean race, I was fairly pleased with.

I'd have to agree with Ben Mitchell's comments on the relay on the BOF website. I t was possible one of the most fun relays that I've ever done; and being right at the front of the pack for the majority of it was a great experience.

In response to Buzz. When using the term "bitching" I was predominantly referring to the fact that the majority of posters on this thread debating whether BO had actually stuck to the selection criteria. In my opinion they have. Especially considering the fact that no where in the selection policy does it say that athletes who have been to JWOC will automatically be excluded, which many on here have claimed - it states it is aimed at those who may not have experienced international competition, and does not categorically exclude members of the JWOC squad. I'm not sure if any were unfairly excluded, if you're not good enough you don't go. Simple.
And when discussing the squad system (which isn't really relevant on a thread about JEC), to be honest with you the series of training camps put on throughout this winter were of a very high quality, and the most organised and focused that the squad has put on (or since I've been in the squad anyway, I could be wrong).

[DM]

Especially considering the fact that no where in the selection policy does it say that athletes who have been to JWOC will automatically be excluded, which many on here have claimed - it states it is aimed at those who may not have experienced international competition, and does not categorically exclude members of the JWOC squad.

You are correct in what the words in the policy say, they don't exclude people who went to JWOC, but it does say aimed at people who may not have had international experience in 2013. I may be missing something but the international competitions for Juniors this year were JWOC and Interland. So it's easy to see how people made the assumption that JWOC runners would not be taken to JEC (many people I spoke to did). Clarity of communication could have been better, something I reckon is coming up at the BOF conference soon.
You say many on here have made this claim, having trawled through all 7 pages I can find 1 possibly 2 mentions of it.