JEC 2013

[buzz]

Any web site or results for JEC?

[frostbite]

Any web site or results for JEC?

No sign of any live results. Final results will here

http://jec2013.wordpress.com/results/

[bewildered]

This is from the Board Minutes - and explains everything - the gist being that SH thought that no-one else was good enough. No mention of why those who were selected for JWOC were going, against the principles of the selection policy.

The decision not to select a full team for JEC was queried.
SH explained that the selection panel had considered the situation carefully and came to a decision that the athletes selected were at the correct stage of their development to
benefit from selection for JEC.
Developing talented performers is about reaching a balance between building physical
ability, technical competence, knowledge and mental capability whilst providing appropriate competitive experience. If British Orienteering: More People, More Places, More Podiums inappropriate competition and experience is given at the wrong times it can hinder rather than support the overall development of the athlete.
Places were not filled in the belief that athletes had not met the criteria for inclusion or it was not in the best interests of the athletes to be selected.
SH stated that the purpose of the talent programme is to develop athletes and the selection group made the decision that it was not in the development interests of athletes to attend – more than that, selecting orienteers that do not meet the criteria
would reward athletes in a way that would be negative to their development.
It is clear that one of the biggest problems the talent/performance programme has to address is the belief that just competing in orienteering or adding to athletes’ experience will improve them – it may by small amounts but it is clearly far more important to have a personal development programme built around knowledge, physical preparedness, technical skills development/delivery, experience and this is unlikely to
be delivered effectively through competition. Learning to train and training to perform are critical compon nts of performance sport.
Once again SH was thanked for her presentation and responses; SH left the meeting.

[Mrs H]

This is the interesting bit isn't it?

It is clear that one of the biggest problems the talent/performance programme has to address is the belief that just competing in orienteering or adding to athletes’ experience will improve them – it may by small amounts but it is clearly far more important to have a personal development programme built around knowledge, physical preparedness, technical skills development/delivery, experience and this is unlikely to be delivered effectively through competition. Learning to train and training to perform are critical components of performance sport.

I'm not sure you can side-line competition so completely out of a personal development programme - surely it must be the only real bench mark for development apart from being the ultimate point of the whole thing. It's like doing all the studying but not sitting the exam.

[DIDSCO]

Learning to train, training to perform are critical components of performance sport, but you've also got to be given/ or take the opportunity to perform, and regularly. The road BOF is taking by not aknowledging competition as an important part of a young athletes development programme is so wrong. I feel I'm in a good position to disagree with their policy having worked with at least 10 different junior internationals in various sports over the last 15 years. All these athletes through there junior years had international competition as an important part of their development, for all of them the competitions were a key motivating factor for the training they were doing, they trained hard and competed regularly. Juniors thrive on competition, with good coaches, training, and a well constructed plan, competition is a key component in developing in to a top athlete. Where is the research that BOF has based their policy upon? Thierry says himself how important it was in his junior days that running for France he got to compete regularly in international races which set the foundations for his future success. He feels he had an advantage over his Swedish competitiors as the pool of athletes was smaller in France, so he always got the opportunity to race internationally regularly and from a young age.

[PhilJ]

If you read the BO news page IMO seems to kick what SH is reporting into touch, e.g. "GB debutants gain valuable experience at JEC" and Ben Mitchell's comment on his experience of running in a world class junior pack, where would he and the others competing get that experience locally or in some classroom training sessions full of PowerPoint slides ?

[JK]

A lot of what SH is quoted as saying seems reasonable enough, at least for other endurance sports. It is harder IMO to justify this though for orienteering as the mental side plays a big part. So ability to perform is vital, ability to perform under pressure is the next step, but would the pressure have been higher at an international event like JEC where maybe our lower-qualified athletes wouldn't have many expectations of top finishes, ... or in the selection races to get them there? How this is balanced in an athlete's development isn't straightforward.

OK, so athletes shouldn't be selected unless they have "earned" the right to that place by their performances, but was this communicated effectively in advance. Were statements like "Winners of selection races will not automatically selected" made? Should they have been?

I'd hope that, since it was felt that certain athletes weren't at the correct stage of their development to be selected for JEC, the reasons this was explained to their coaches so that they could work with the athletes to address those issues get the athlete to that "next level".

PS for an example of focus - look at Simone and Tove today before their starts. Not a flicker of emotion from the Queen in her last ever international event, in front of a home crowd, needing to win. Smiles (nervous ones?) from Tove when her name was called out as WC leader. Maybe the writing was on the wall even then.

[graeme]

read the BO news ... Ben Mitchell's comment on his experience of running in a world class junior pack,

It's a shambles that our domestic competition structure can't offer him and others a similar pack running experience. Ben Mitchell is ranked 48th in the UK, so there are plenty of people in the UK who could provide this competition. Makes me want to put on a top quality relay. Let me know if you can help get a quality field

[Homer]

read the BO news ... Ben Mitchell's comment on his experience of running in a world class junior pack,

Ben Mitchell is ranked 48th in the UK. It's a shambles that our domestic competition structure can't offer him and others a similar pack running experience. Makes me want to put on a top quality relay. Let me know if you can help get a quality field

I also note that very many of our top juniors are getting some experience of head to head racing next weekend at Newborough. Shame there aren't a few more top M21's for them to test themselves against.

[PhilJ]

What's ur point? Your ranking in some jobbie GB ranking list is not the basis for selection or do you want to add that into the mix of a non-selection criteria, as that is what it's turned into. Not everyone is blessed with the support and money to travel to all ranking events which is why it a worthless list, but as you have mentioned it I have looked up where I am in the ranking list, first time I have looked, and the last as it is a pointless list.

[SJC]

I'd hope that, since it was felt that certain athletes weren't at the correct stage of their development to be selected for JEC, the reasons this was explained to their coaches so that they could work with the athletes to address those issues get the athlete to that "next level".

Would it also not have been right for those competitors who weren't at the correct stage of their development to be selected for JEC to have been told this before investing their time and money attending the selection races ?

[EddieH]

Surely it's horses for courses. Steve Redgrave was someone able to motivate himself and do everything necessary to peak when he wanted with very little (but not zero) competition. Others thrive on firly regular competition.

Antone remember David Bedford - utterly brilliant at running against the clock, but put him in a major race and he just couldn't run to save his life. He did everything required to be brilliant ..... except race

And that is in a far less mentally important sport than orienteering.

[graeme]

Are you talking about the World Junior and Senior Cross Country champion, or some other Dave Bedford who couldn't race?

Some people aren't blessed with a sprint finish, it makes racing harder, but doesn't mean they can't win http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28_WpclPgTo

[awk]

I'm not sure you can side-line competition so completely out of a personal development programme

Of course you can. What you do is substitute hours of classroom work instead.

[WillG]

Anyone actually want to talk about the results? Nobody cares about who can bitch about BO the most. The athletes who have gone have tried their hardest in the situations/terrains given to them