M/W21s not interested in Forest Orienteering?

[*Carol*]

Just the Mitre on Epping East, for the umpteenth time (as nice as it is) won't get a lot of 21s out of bed.

We'd be out of bed anyway doing other things. Lots of other things.

Speaking for myself, two things determine whether or not I attend an event:
1. the generosity/availability of club mates to provide lifts or the "atmosphere",
2. the accessibility of the event via reliable/cost-efficient public transport .

I'd put in the extra effort for an event if I could combine it with another activity (e.g. seeing friends/family, other events) because the cost of public transport can be much greater than the entry fees.

Aire have done a fantastic job of bringing me out of my (very early) orienteering retirement (I was one of those W21s that disappeared from the scene) their lift-share scheme not only gets carless folk to events but provides a chance to get to know people in the club.

One step forward in engaging MW21s would be to stop treating them all as lazy students!

[smf]

ARnold -you might be describing the sport in London-shire, but certainly not in NE Scotland. Here forest orienteering is getting more popular (we do have nice,challenging forests) while urban O isn't really attracting many.

What, you mean like yesterday's event in glorious weather in one of the NE's nicest, most accessible forests (shame about the out-of-date map tho...) which attracted a grand total of two M21s and no W21s (out of a hardly bumper field of c. 100)?

We had 11 M/W21's out of 87 participants at the ESOC Ultrasprint yesterday.

[King Penguin]

Carol,
Only heard about the foot yesterday. Hope it recovers quickly.

[Jayne]

Despite just about still being in the 21s category, and not very far from Epping I only just realised this event was on (so you'll be soon + another 1) - I'm guessing that means there's something to be said for the marketing of it. For example I got a FB invite for the CHIG street-O on Thursday but haven't for Sunday.

Also, I'm lucky enough to have a car which makes going feasible - this isn't the same for most of the people I know of my age in London, let alone younger 21s. I think in this way you do have to count London as different to other places - really the initial discussion should be "Why are 21s not interesting in going to the Mitre on Sunday in Epping East" rather than not interested in Foot-O in general.

As for getting people interested and to events - goes back to a lot of things Arnold said. London-centric but I've had a few friends start doing SLOW park-o recently, and then done city race. Park races over the summer are in the evening, usually fairly central, not too difficult for a beginner, good post-race course dissecting as everyone does the same, and sociable. My friends are pretty hooked but still getting them to give up their Sunday for a race is going to take a bit longer.

This is not necessarily a bad thing (we don't need everyone to do everything) - and I don't think drawing direct comparisons really helps. We have different kinds of races, some people will be drawn to all of them, some won't - and this should affect how we market them.

[SeanC]

What struck me was that, compared to other forest O events, the Epping East event should be more attractive.

- OK the dreaded rail replacement bus service, but compared to a long complicated/impossible trip to the shires on public transport it's a breeze.
- The area is big, technically challenging (for the SE) and runnable.
- The organisers have even made an effort towards the 'progressive' agenda . Checking the website .. string course, space for club tents, cafe for meeting up afterwards.

Then there is the full array of traditional ways such events have tried to increase attendance:
- status: it's a level B (drum roll).
- controller
- big range of courses (including black).
- 1 year embargo.
- Ranking points
- South East League event (first one of the season).
- no doubt a new map survey
- South East Galloppen (though I think it may be called something else now)

But still only 3 M/W21's, and looking at the entries, not very many under 45.

Perhaps it's the marketing as someone said, or could it be that the big forest O events need a much bigger shakeup?

There aren't many going from SLOW. Maybe you're all cream crackered and want a break next weekend?

[Jayne]

I think with SLOW it is probably partly down to some people having had a lot on their minds - though if anyone does get round to thinking about Sunday there's also an event at Yateley Heath which I think would attract the more South West London based people. Others are tied up with exams & revision (which unfortunately for some don't finish at the end of school/uni) or I guess after a full day of helping last weekend are spending time with non-orienteering family!

[Gnitworp]

- The area is big, technically challenging (for the SE) and runnable.
-

Didn't like your parenthesis, Sean. Should be (for the UK)

[afterthought]

I think some people do like to feel there are numbers on their course.

SLOW's London City Race had adult classes in 4 age groups - Open, 40+, 50+, 60+.
There was also a newcomer's course with many 21's. From http://cityrace.org/files/2013/results/
Elite and Open classes: 350 starters.
40+, 50+, 60+: 588 starters.

For comparison, at the JK Sprint this year (Reading University Campus)
http://www.butlercole.plus.com/mn/jk2013/day1/index.htm
Elite, open, and 35 classes: 326.
40-65: 1027.

[afterthought]

Looking at numbers of M/W21s in the national ranking lists for some South-East clubs, as a way of estimating potential participants for the Mitre.
CHIG - 5
HAVOC - 2
HH - 9
LOK - 2
DFOK - 2
SAX - 1
MV - 3
GO - 2
SLOW - 63.

[Dave]

Then there is the full array of traditional ways such events have tried to increase attendance:
- status: it's a level B (drum roll).
- controller
- big range of courses (including black).
- 1 year embargo.
- Ranking points
- South East League event (first one of the season).
- no doubt a new map survey
- South East Galloppen (though I think it may be called something else now)

None of this would make me the slightest bit interested in going to an event, except for the one point you are unsure of: Having a new [good] map.

I tend to have 4 deal breakers when deciding to go to an event, if it passes at least three and I don't have a better offer of training, I go:

Is it challenging terrain?
Is there a good map of the area?
Is it likely to be a well planned course? [Hence, skip 'urban events']
How much will it cost in petrol...?

[andypat]

I tend to have 4 deal breakers when deciding to go to an event, if it passes at least three and I don't have a better offer of training, I go:

Is it challenging terrain?
Is there a good map of the area?
Is it likely to be a well planned course? [Hence, skip 'urban events']
How much will it cost in petrol...?

I can understand you skipping urban events if you prefer to race in more challenging terrain, but your generalisation that Urban events dont have well planned courses just suggests a snobbish, elitist attitude and demeans all the effort course planners put in to make these urban events so popular.

[Gnitworp]

Planning a good and, above all, fair urban course with all the essential niceties given due attention (e.g., meticulous circle and line cutting) is an exacting exercise requiring as much skill and ingenuity to get the best out of an area as for 'terrain' events, and yes, we do get them sometimes.

[mharky]

I tend to have 4 deal breakers when deciding to go to an event, if it passes at least three and I don't have a better offer of training, I go:

Is it challenging terrain?
Is there a good map of the area?
Is it likely to be a well planned course? [Hence, skip 'urban events']
How much will it cost in petrol...?

I can understand you skipping urban events if you prefer to race in more challenging terrain, but your generalisation that Urban events dont have well planned courses just suggests a snobbish, elitist attitude and demeans all the effort course planners put in to make these urban events so popular.

Can you point out where Dave generalised that urban races have bad planning, I can't find the comments you seem to be referring to.

I entirely agree with Dave, those are the 4 things I will look for in anything that isn't a selection race, be it urban, forest, or a combination of the two.

[AndyC]

Mharky what would you infer from

Is it likely to be a well planned course? [Hence, skip 'urban events']

?
I think semantically that says urban events aren't likely to be well planned doesn't it?

[roadrunner]

I tend to have 4 deal breakers when deciding to go to an event, if it passes at least three and I don't have a better offer of training, I go:

Is it challenging terrain?
Is there a good map of the area?
Is it likely to be a well planned course? [Hence, skip 'urban events']
How much will it cost in petrol...?

I can understand you skipping urban events if you prefer to race in more challenging terrain, but your generalisation that Urban events dont have well planned courses just suggests a snobbish, elitist attitude and demeans all the effort course planners put in to make these urban events so popular.

Can you point out where Dave generalised that urban races have bad planning, I can't find the comments you seem to be referring to.

I entirely agree with Dave, those are the 4 things I will look for in anything that isn't a selection race.

Surely it's the line:

Is it likely to be a well planned course? [Hence, skip 'urban events']