EYOC 2013

[Vidalos]

Going back to the original topic of this thread then the difference between mharky's explanation here and the EYOC/JEC selections is that for WOC selections they stuck to the published selection policy, whereas for the EYOC and especially JEC selections this has not been the case.

[frostbite]

^^^^^Post of the Day^^^^^

The only thing I would add is that if you want to make sure you're in any team, make the selectors job easy by making it impossible to ignore you. If you can't make yourself a dead cert then don't whinge if the selections don't go your way.

-m

Fair enough if somebody gets selected ahead of you - you should have trained harder/run faster/spiked all the controls and beat them. But if nobody gets selected, then you are left with the impression that no amount of training harder/running faster/spiking controls would have got you in the team, because there was never a team in the first place.

I'm not sure if selection policy was followed or not - the BO selection policy document doesn't specify the size or make-up of the team. But if you were an M18 or W18 running in the selection races and you thought that there were places up for grabs then I can see how demoralising this is.

[StefB]

Looking at the selection policy on the BOF website for JEC, it doesn't state if they were selecting for M/W18 or M/W20 so if they were planning on taking just 20s then surely this should be stated in the selection policy??? As the competition is for 18s and 20s then it should have been made clear as, as an 18, you are going to think "well I have a chance of being selected".

I also heard that the 18s were told, "if you miss out on selections for EYOC then you should get selected for JEC".

Also, BOF have contradicted themselves a bit by stating in the policy:

'JEC is being included in the Programme for 2013 to give those junior athletes who may not have experienced international competition in 2013 and an opportunity to put into practice high performance race techniques and strategies against international standard competition.' But, 2 out of the 5 selected went to JWOC this year?!

It just all seems crazy. I know a few M18s who went to the 6 days specifically for selection for EYOC and JEC, they paid a lot of money to get up there and to enter the event.

It is DISGUSTING that they were not told that there was a chance no 18s would be selected.

Rant over!!!!!

[andypat]

It is DISGUSTING that they were not told that there was a chance no 18s would be selected.

I dont have any vested interests in this one, but isnt it always implicit in any selection policy that if noone meets the selection criteria then noone will be selected? I appreciate this then implies there was nobody good enough (and people may disagree with that) but I dont know enough about the relevant individuals to comment on their qualities.

[buzz]

... isnt it always implicit in any selection policy that if noone meets the selection criteria then noone will be selected?

There are selection criteria for the Talent Squad but I'm not sure they apply for selection to JEC or EYOC.

I don't know about the M18's but the EYOC W16's who were also deemed not good enough for selection didn't seem be too far behind the winners at the selection races.

Interestingly the best performing non selected W16's went to the JROS organised pre-S6D camp rather than the Talent Squad camp. Perhaps they fed them better or something!

[Homer]

Perhaps they fed them better or something!

Fed them more actual orienteering training most likely

[Axel]

I had a vested interest in this subject as parent of a lad was contesting for a place in the EYOC Team. I was perturbed by a number of factors both before and during the selection races:

Firstly why use a multiday event to select a team to represent their country; I ask would the Swedes select a representative team from say the Oringen?

Secondly did anybody check that all the start blocks over the 3 days were fair and that everybody had an early, middle and late start?

Thirdly what would be the action taken by the selectors if they found someone had manipulated the start times in his favour?

I believe the furor over the selection for these competition can clearly be laid at the feet of flawed selection policy, which was not thought out, amaturish and clearly should not happen again. Hopefully someone from British Orienteering is taking note and makes sure a more professional approach when considering Junior Selection Policy in the future.

Whatever I cannot see the selectors changing their minds, so I believe enough has been said on this subject and we should get behind the the lads and lasses that have been selected and wish the them well in the challenges ahead.

[greywolf]

Secondly did anybody check that all the start blocks over the 3 days were fair and that everybody had an early, middle and late start?

Seems unlikely, given that they didn't even bother to separate M18 start times from those of M50L running the same course - I don't know if this had an impact on M18 results, but it certainly could have - on day 3 Clive Hallett was the quickest on that course

[Homer]

Secondly did anybody check that all the start blocks over the 3 days were fair and that everybody had an early, middle and late start?

Seems unlikely, given that they didn't even bother to separate M18 start times from those of M50L running the same course - I don't know if this had an impact on M18 results, but it certainly could have - on day 3 Clive Hallett was the quickest on that course

I think Axel may have been referring to a particular individual who changed his start time on the day of one of the selection races.

There is also a very good chance that some M18s will have been affected by starting on the same minute as an M50. Most were aware that the courses were identical by mid-week.

[batty]

I have read all the posts with interest but see the problem of lack of encouragement as being a real problem for the future. There are some really good junior squads, some selective but some not. I think if you asked most of our juniors what they like about orienteering it is probably their regional squad weekends.

[Thank goodness for JROS
http://www.jros.org.uk/
Without them, and the hard working volunteers making things happen, most of our juniors would have nothing to aspire to.]

I think it is about time there was a review of the way juniors are catered for. The BOF policy seems to be to select a few for a talent squad at a young age and the rest are left out. Surely it would make more sense to have a larger base to the pyramid. Many other sports have regional talent squads. Why not have more weekends like the old Lakeside - now Hawkshead. These could be spread throughout the year and country and maybe be specific to different disciplines, eg the Talent squad had a very good sprint based weekend in the south central this year. They could for M/W16+ with each region being able to select a certain number and it being mainly self funded. This would then keep many more in the sport. Not all would be up to the squad level but they might aspire to it through more contact and encouragement and by not just being left out. Some will not realise their potential until they are in their 20's but with the present system they will have dropped out by then. It is a big step up to elite long distance races and if you think about it how many of our young athletes have move on from JWOC to be at the top in elite.

[DM]

Batty, some good points and ideas in there that I think many will agree with. I certainly feel the pool of people who get attention is far too small.
Especially when people leave home to go to university we need to keep as many interested as possible, this when people are just about to leave M18, the very age group that has just been demotivated.
They will get to all those freshers weeks and see all those interesting new options opening for them. We will lose a % but with a bigger pool we still have more left.
I can compare the support and advice that we get for 2 of our boys from the sports they love. One is keen track and road cycling and gets loads of regular advice on training plans, diet, rest, tactics - while not being at the very top of the sport - all from dedicated people who are coordinated from the national body. And this is happening in each region. The pool is people snapping at the heels of the top riders is brim-full and keeps everyone focussed and leads to better performances all round. Another gets his support from orienteering club members and his regional squad (thank you NWJS) and not a lot from anywhere else.

Homer, I think some in your club worked out M18 and M50 courses were the same on day 1, starting father and son on the same minute and heading off in the same direction would prompt a question post race...........

[Dave]

I can compare the support and advice that we get for 2 of our boys from the sports they love. One is keen track and road cycling and gets loads of regular advice on training plans, diet, rest, tactics - while not being at the very top of the sport - all from dedicated people who are coordinated from the national body. And this is happening in each region. The pool is people snapping at the heels of the top riders is brim-full and keeps everyone focussed and leads to better performances all round. Another gets his support from orienteering club members and his regional squad (thank you NWJS) and not a lot from anywhere else.

Think about what you are comparing though: Cycling, which receives £32m Sport England funding + £30.6m UK Sport funding, and Orienteering, which receives £2.3m Sport England funding and no UK Sport funding. Not really the same league are they?

It's sad if there has been miscomunication here but a lot of the debate and concern seems to be around participation, and maintaining it in the teenagers. I agree this is an important issue but not one that International competitions are there to address.

[awk]

I think it is about time there was a review of the way juniors are catered for.

Not just about time, but urgently needed: I'm not much involved in junior orienteering currently, but listening to many others at races and elsewhere, the level of antipathy towards British Orienteering amongst parents, coaches and junior athletes appears overwhelming, way way beyond normal mumbles and groans. I would hope some serious alarm bells are going off at Board level.

[DM]

Think about what you are comparing though: Cycling, which receives £32m Sport England funding + £30.6m UK Sport funding, and Orienteering, which receives £2.3m Sport England funding and no UK Sport funding. Not really the same league are they?

It's sad if there has been miscomunication here but a lot of the debate and concern seems to be around participation, and maintaining it in the teenagers. I agree this is an important issue but not one that International competitions are there to address.

I knew the comparison in funding was going to come up sooner or later. It's not just about the money, it's the interest and passion that is shown in a large number of juniors that inspires them.

[mharky]

If you want British Orienteering to take note, or alarm bells to go off at board level, then I suggest you let your concerns known to British Orienteering and the board.