W16 girls unfortunately seem to have come out of this badly in terms of EYOC selection. Based on the preliminary registrations for countries on the EYOC website, it would have been anticipated that 4 W16s, 4 M16s, 2 M18s and 2 W18s would be selected for GB. The actual selections made have increased M18 and W18 numbers by 1 each at the obvious expense of the W16 girls.
I appreciate that the selection policy states that "Not all available places for all competitions will necessarily be filled" and that there is of course a limited budget.
However it would be nice to understand the exact criteria used to determine the selection of so few girls. At first sight, the percentages behind the winner seem not greatly different between the M16 and W16 groups based on the selection races. Was selection to the talent development camp a pre-requisite? If so, this in turn works against some of the girls who did well at the selection races but did not go to the talent development camp since there was half the number of W16 girls attending this camp relative to M16 boys in the first place!
I echo the comments above about the message this is sending to some of our key age groups exactly at the point when we should be trying to keep their motivation up in the sport.
EYOC 2013
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Re: EYOC 2013
gross wrote...
Do not wish to be disingenuous but what are Sarah Hague qualifications in coaching/international sport etc, nothing on BO web site? As talent manager I'd have thought that the success of the talent/junior squad at an international level would be one of the job role objectives/kpi's as to how you are performing in your role. It's a tough job in sport, if you don't get results you are out, or is orienteering different?
National Talent Manager is Sarah Hague so I doubt there's any lack of knowledge about the experience juniors require to make the jump into the world of big boys & girls orienteering
Do not wish to be disingenuous but what are Sarah Hague qualifications in coaching/international sport etc, nothing on BO web site? As talent manager I'd have thought that the success of the talent/junior squad at an international level would be one of the job role objectives/kpi's as to how you are performing in your role. It's a tough job in sport, if you don't get results you are out, or is orienteering different?
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Re: EYOC 2013
It would also be good to know out of the juniors who were selected to attend the talent camp at bagaduish, who actually attended? I know some did not go but won't comment on their reasons. Did this automatically rule them out for selection? Thought s6d days 1, 3 and 6 were the selection races, as per selection policy, mushrooms and dark rooms spring to mind or just making it up as we go along?
Also off selection policy:
"* JEC is being included in the Programme for 2013 to give those junior athletes who may not have experienced international competition in 2013 and an opportunity to put into practice high performance race techniques and strategies against international standard competition."
Maybe not then........for the W18, M18 and any other W20's.
Also off selection policy:
"* JEC is being included in the Programme for 2013 to give those junior athletes who may not have experienced international competition in 2013 and an opportunity to put into practice high performance race techniques and strategies against international standard competition."
Maybe not then........for the W18, M18 and any other W20's.
- PhilJ
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Re: EYOC 2013
Also off selection policy:
"* JEC is being included in the Programme for 2013 to give those junior athletes who may not have experienced international competition in 2013 and an opportunity to put into practice high performance race techniques and strategies against international standard competition."
So they select two people for JEC who went to JWOC.
Whoever is responsible for this should be taken to task. This approach is not serving our aspiring juniors well yet there is never any explanation as to why these selections are made.
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Re: EYOC 2013
PhilJ wrote:It would also be good to know out of the juniors who were selected to attend the talent camp at bagaduish, who actually attended? I know some did not go but won't comment on their reasons. Did this automatically rule them out for selection? Thought s6d days 1, 3 and 6 were the selection races, as per selection policy, mushrooms and dark rooms spring to mind or just making it up as we go along?
Some of the older potentials chose not to be considered for the camp because they had been before or had other plans, like O-Ringen where they felt they would learn more and expand their experience. I hope this did not rule them out as selection was said to have been done only on S6D results for days 1, 3 and 4 (not 6 as you suggested)
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Re: EYOC 2013
It also states in the policy that athletes "In cases where a selection decision was close or marginal, the non-selected athlete(s) will normally receive feedback as part of the process surrounding announcement of the selected team." given the number of omissions from selection, it would be interesting to know how many non selected athletes have received this ?
I wouldn't expect BO to post responses or explanations here, it would be good it they did but I doubt it.
But I would expect BO Directors who read this forum, and already have, to want to understand why the system based on what has been published
1. has not delivered the athletes
2. has not provided the opportunities
3. has not complied with the published policy
4. has delivered a negative message to the junior orienteering community
If they do not do this they are not fulfilling their responsibilities as Directors and are not protecting the interests, and particularly the junior interests, of this sport
I wouldn't expect BO to post responses or explanations here, it would be good it they did but I doubt it.
But I would expect BO Directors who read this forum, and already have, to want to understand why the system based on what has been published
1. has not delivered the athletes
2. has not provided the opportunities
3. has not complied with the published policy
4. has delivered a negative message to the junior orienteering community
If they do not do this they are not fulfilling their responsibilities as Directors and are not protecting the interests, and particularly the junior interests, of this sport
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Re: EYOC 2013
Vidalos wrote:I wouldn't expect BO to post responses or explanations here, it would be good it they did but I doubt it.
BO have a 'no official posts on nopesport' policy
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
- andy
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Re: EYOC 2013
I'm meeting with Sarah Hague in a couple of weeks to discuss various Talent Squad related issues, selection processes being one of them.
I'll try to find out what the reasoning was behind the various strange/inconsistent decisions related to EYOC selections and also point out the need for better communication.
If anyone has any other Talent Squad issues that they feel need an airing I'd be happy to raise them.
I'll try to find out what the reasoning was behind the various strange/inconsistent decisions related to EYOC selections and also point out the need for better communication.
If anyone has any other Talent Squad issues that they feel need an airing I'd be happy to raise them.
To oblivion and beyond....
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Re: EYOC 2013
Bitter disappointment all round for M18's not selected for EYOC, as I know first hand that a number of lads in this class were hoping to get selected for JEC if they didn't get into the make the EYOC Team.
I believe its a major kick in the teeth for the likes of Will Rigg, Matt Elkington, Micheal Adams, Alex McCann, Alistair Thornton, Josh Dudley, Zac Fields to name but a few that made a major effort to compete in the S6D with the hope of qualifying for one or other of the European Champs. They had already learned from the EYOC website that only 2 places were available for M18 boys. It was also muted that no JWOC team members would be considered for selection for either of the competitions and that a number of places would be open to competitors on the fringe of selection to give them a taste/experience of a major international competition, so many of the 18's were pinning there hope on getting a place at JEC. Also you just have to look at the stats of the 2 classes that were open (M18/M20) for JEC selection for the boys and how much it meant to them, on average over the S6D M18 x 51 per day competed to M20L x 21 per day.
This is not a one off, for a number of years we have not been sending teams to JEC and I can't understand why as most of the major orienteering countries in Europe do send teams. As a parent who has previously self funded his sibling and acted as team manager for 2 other keen competitors I know how much they got out of competing at JEC and how pleased the organisers were to see us there, I also believe this also happened last year. I can also say that when I informed BO of my intention to enter JEC, I got a rather cold reply that they were against it and informed me that we could not enter as a British Team. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the so called 1st Division Orienteering nations are where they are and we are lingering in the 2nd Division in the Male Class. If its about funding team members I know parents, clubs, regions and the boys themselves would sponsor or find sponsorship to pay for a chance to compete.
We are always harping on about retention in this sport, hello this is a competitive sport and we need to retain the best lads in it, by not selecting anybody at M18 for JEC what does it say to these boys, you ain't good enough, the sport doesn't need you, I just wonder how many of the lads that didn't get selected will bother to stay in the sport!!!
I know this will mostly fall on deaf ears at BO, but come on see the light, get your finger out, get someone involved in the sport who is compassionate about our younger generation, get them competing against their peers, give them the valuable experience of international competition abroad, enhance their knowledge at this level and finally keep that spark alive that one day the could make it to the top.
I believe its a major kick in the teeth for the likes of Will Rigg, Matt Elkington, Micheal Adams, Alex McCann, Alistair Thornton, Josh Dudley, Zac Fields to name but a few that made a major effort to compete in the S6D with the hope of qualifying for one or other of the European Champs. They had already learned from the EYOC website that only 2 places were available for M18 boys. It was also muted that no JWOC team members would be considered for selection for either of the competitions and that a number of places would be open to competitors on the fringe of selection to give them a taste/experience of a major international competition, so many of the 18's were pinning there hope on getting a place at JEC. Also you just have to look at the stats of the 2 classes that were open (M18/M20) for JEC selection for the boys and how much it meant to them, on average over the S6D M18 x 51 per day competed to M20L x 21 per day.
This is not a one off, for a number of years we have not been sending teams to JEC and I can't understand why as most of the major orienteering countries in Europe do send teams. As a parent who has previously self funded his sibling and acted as team manager for 2 other keen competitors I know how much they got out of competing at JEC and how pleased the organisers were to see us there, I also believe this also happened last year. I can also say that when I informed BO of my intention to enter JEC, I got a rather cold reply that they were against it and informed me that we could not enter as a British Team. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the so called 1st Division Orienteering nations are where they are and we are lingering in the 2nd Division in the Male Class. If its about funding team members I know parents, clubs, regions and the boys themselves would sponsor or find sponsorship to pay for a chance to compete.
We are always harping on about retention in this sport, hello this is a competitive sport and we need to retain the best lads in it, by not selecting anybody at M18 for JEC what does it say to these boys, you ain't good enough, the sport doesn't need you, I just wonder how many of the lads that didn't get selected will bother to stay in the sport!!!
I know this will mostly fall on deaf ears at BO, but come on see the light, get your finger out, get someone involved in the sport who is compassionate about our younger generation, get them competing against their peers, give them the valuable experience of international competition abroad, enhance their knowledge at this level and finally keep that spark alive that one day the could make it to the top.
- Catfish
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Re: EYOC 2013
andy wrote:This just doesn't make sense. We need to send full teams to these kind of races, increase the personal funding if necessary. The decent (but not at the top of the results list) 18s now can be world champions in 5 years time with hard work and dedication. BOF essentially saying 'nobody was good enough' could be a brutal blow to people in the age group we NEED to keep in the sport.
Couldn't agree more with this sentiment. But am not surprised by the lack of selections, or that the criteria have been breached for JEC.
Can anyone show that lack of performance at Junior level equates to lack of performance at an elite level. I have heard that, in the past, a senior Scandi coach stated that it is the layer below the top 3/4 that tends produce the top seniors.
Of course, if these kids are driven to a different sport, say Fellrunning, then they will be welcome!
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Re: EYOC 2013
It's just another thing to add to the whole catalogue of stuff that BOF no longer does or considers important for young people in the sport any more.
Perhaps it would help the decision makers concentrate their minds if they realised that this is where the future medals will come from which helps to justify the sports body funding which keeps BOF in business. Elite orienteers don't just pop out of thin air fully formed at the age of 21
Perhaps it would help the decision makers concentrate their minds if they realised that this is where the future medals will come from which helps to justify the sports body funding which keeps BOF in business. Elite orienteers don't just pop out of thin air fully formed at the age of 21

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Re: EYOC 2013
Mrs H wrote: Elite orienteers don't just pop out of thin air fully formed at the age of 21
I have just read a secret UN policy document and it states:
'Oh yes they do!'

And on a serious note - when I invented NEDS & SEDS in the build up to WOC 99 the aim was firstly to offer support to potential WOC medalist but we all knew that that was a very small pool of athletes so training was open to all. We had a great number of youngsters (18+ coz we went for beers) come along and from reading the modern day SEDS stuff they still get a good throughput of youngsters.
It is important for the youngsters to get international experience not only from orienteering but from a social view. They need to learn that their 'heroes' are ordinary people just like them. I took a GB team to a Park World Tour once upon a time... there was a new GB runner with the team & my comments were that the best you'll get from the tour is getting to know the others & seeing they are no different from you....
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Re: EYOC 2013
http://www.scottish-orienteering.org/soa/page/vacancy-head-of-performance-orienteering
Gross - your country needs you!

Gross - your country needs you!

Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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