Run Challenge

[tropso]

Tried another Run Challenge event this evening. Fun but frustrating.

Worryingly I was told BOF said ok if feature anywhere in circle. Didn't make much difference as many controls on edge of or outside circle.

At this rate Run Challenge will kill orienteering unless implementation improves. Our only hope is Run Challenge participation stays low but what a waste that'd be. If implemented properly it'll be great for introducing orienteering to more people, especially runners.

Has anyone else had a better Run Challenge experience?

Steve

[EddieH]

Quote "Worryingly I was told BOF said ok if feature anywhere in circle."

I despair if this is what our governing body thinks is supporting us

[SeanC]

"Fun but frustrating" sounds like orienteering.

I think you might be over-egging this a bit. But those of us who don't live in Northern England are interested to find out what it is like.

- What's the map like? Is it classic O map or something simpler? (perhaps you could scan a copy?).
- What's the turnout like? How many newcomers and what are the demographics etc?
- Are the beginners finding the controls despite the inaccuracy? Are they finding most of them (it's a score event so a bit more resistant to a few bad ones)? Do they mind / is it putting them off?
- Did the activator give a briefing before and afterwards, and was there selling of future events and mainstream/real O?
- What's the atmosphere like etc?

I can only comment on the website which I think looks really good, must better than almost all club websites I've seen. It's a bit short on information though, some more sections on "what's it like and what do you do" might be good, particularly reassurance for those who fear getting lost. The results thing doesn't seem to have worked yet, presumably the idea was that competitors post their own results to reduce organisers workload. All these can be improved though as the site design looks good.

I wonder if some of these run challenges could do with some orienteers occasionally volunteering to help put out/take in controls, and that gives a good opportunity to distribute leaflets and mingle with newcomers who look like they need mainstream O?

The challenge for us (orienteers) would be to volunteer our help without expecting a say in the project in return (and offering our help for nothing when someone is being paid). As Steve says though, this could be great for introducing newcomers.

[tropso]

In reply to SeanC.

- Last week's map attached plus one showing actual control positions
- 45 mins mass start score event, each control worth 10 points. Penalty 10 points per minute late. Bonus 10 points per minute early if all controls found.
- No controls out, instead it's street-o type writing answers to questions such as colour of garage door, road name, lamp post number
- Very low turnout - this evening just me, a husband and wife and their friend. All had done at least 1 previous Run Challenge event. They cope with quirks
- A few more last week although probably not double figures, ages mid 20's upwards, typical fun runners
- Started/Finished at a pub last week. This week it was from a park visitor centre car park
- Very brief briefing, answers checked as a group, scores recorded by Activator for addition to website
- Future Run Challenge events promoted verbally and on postcards. Banner permanently on railings
- No mention of orienteering other than the copyright line on the map

[Sunlit Forres]

At this rate Run Challenge will kill orienteering unless implementation improves

Can't understand why it will kill orienteering - if the quality isnlt good it's an opportunity for local O clubs to promote a better alternative! Run Challenge is an opportunity for orienteers to get in amongst the running community and join in (and have a bit of sociable fun by the sound of things). If we ignore them, we can hardly complain about others ignoring us.

I see a lot of traditional O events (and the people who attend them) trying to be more sociable these days. By mixing with "normal" runners and getting to know them a bit more we might have a chance of getting more newcomers along and if they like the atmosphere of our events (and the quality), some of them might stay.

[graeme]

Can't understand why it will kill orienteering

Did you never talk to someone who said "I tried orienteering once at school/scouts/army and it was crap?". Everyone in my son's scout troop thought so, and he was just embarrassed. With all that expense on a fancy website, surely a few minutes could be spent getting the controls in the right place? Surely we're beyond "find the number on the lamppost"? It's not as if there aren't development officers out there who've found what works!Whatever happened to "best practice"?

[tropso]

Sunlit Forres wrote: Can't understand why it will kill orienteering

Run Challenge seem to have much better potential for accessing people than many orienteering clubs have achieved. If a person's first experience of orienteering had been either of the Run Challenge events I've been to they'd be unlikely to want to do more of the same, especially on more difficult courses in a harder setting. There's a risk o-clubs will attract even fewer new members than now because people have already had a bad o experience with Run Challenge.

Yes it's a great opportunity for o-clubs but I hope this doesn't become a them and us situation.

Run Challenge is a project our NGB's involved with at a professional level so it's a great pity the standard isn't already at a basic, yet acceptable, level. Totally understandable if it was a non-orienteering outfit setting it up but it isn't. Shouldn't need o-club members to sort out the mess especially given the suggested lack of being consulted/involved.

Steve

[DM]

For the past 2 years MDOC have been running a series called "Countryside Score", based on start and finish at a pub, 90 and 60 minute options. OS maps as a base and careful, time consuming checking done to ensure controls are fair, in the circles, and also that footpaths really still exist so we don't upset people by running across their land when the footpath was diverted years ago.

http://www.mdoc.org.uk/results/20120528_WoodLaneEnds.htm gives an example of the turnout of one last year.

Participants included club members as you would expect, but also local running clubs got into it and brought people of all ages, as did casual runners who just fancied a go. Pub owners love feeding and watering a good number of people mid week.

Increasingly popular as the mailing list builds up. We highlight O events at the pre race briefing and TALK to people afterwards to get feedback.

First one this year is tomorrow night at Peover near Knutsford.

On Run Challenge, let's hope what we are seeing are teething problems and the accuracy of maps improves so people don't get frustrated. It would be nice to see some clearer pathway to get participants aware of local clubs.

[EddieH]

Tropso wrote:

"Run Challenge seem to have much better potential for accessing people than many orienteering clubs have achieved"

Yet (s)he also said that there were only 3 people on his first on including self

What MDOC are doing sounds great. Why are BOF paying non orienteers to put on what sound like extremely poor imitations of that with NO link into the mainstream sport?

[graeme]

an example of the turnout of one last year.

Is it too much to hope that anyone from BOF noticed your best practice?

60 minute score
1st. Steve Vernon
...

[denbydale]

[quote="EddieH" Why are BOF paying non orienteers to put on what sound like extremely poor imitations of that with NO link into the mainstream sport?[/quote]

Just out of curiosity does anyone know how much are BOF paying them?

[DM]

Eddie and Graeme - pm'd you

[Mrs H]

Why are you surprised?
Look at these results from my 3rd MADO event back in 2005 -over 100 people - look at the families look at the number of independent runners. BOF weren't interested then so why would they be interested now?

I can't pretend to understand what is going on. I thought I had invented a winning formula and I carried on demonstrating that it worked for as long as I had the energy to do so - but not only were BOF not interested they actually actively undermined it.

[tropso]

not only were BOF not interested they actually actively undermined it.

And seem to be doing so on a wider scale with their substandard Run Challenge product, not involving o-clubs and having some fixture clashes.

Tropso wrote:

"Run Challenge seem to have much better potential for accessing people than many orienteering clubs have achieved"

Yet (s)he also said that there were only 3 people on his first on including self

OK not worked so far. Key word I used is potential. Run Challenge is a brand. The idea is simple and the logo distinctive so it's easy to promote through networks such as county sport partnerships and local suthorities as well as social media. Run Challenge will also have an expanding database of individual contacts as people register via their website.

Some tweaks and everyone can benefit. Left as it is it's damaging.

Steve

[AndyC]

I'll point out that some of us are actively using county sports partnerships to promote orienteering. I'm intrigued by RunChallenge but as the nearest to me seems to be a whole county away it will be a while before I find out personally.
In the meantime we've only had reports from one organiser's events and they may not be typical (I hope they aren't)