SOA Champs results

[Paul Frost]

There are now links to Winsplits, RouteGadget and some photos.
Scottish Championships 2013

[graeme]

2 competitors on M20E. 1 competitor on M18E.

And more W21Es than at the British Champs.
I'm not sure what your point is: I guess calling restricted age class courses "elite" is a bit of a joke especially given the grand total of, er, one competitor on W20L, W20S, W18L, W18S M20L,M20S,M18L and M18S combined.

[andypat]

I thik it was a not unreasonable point about demographics rather than any comment about the event. Hopefully the SOA will reap the benefits of all the good regional development work going on now, with increased participation at 18-20 level in the next few years.

[andy]

Hopefully the SOA will reap the benefits of all the good regional development work going on now, with increased participation at 18-20 level in the next few years.

Hope so... the number of 18/20/21s is really low and I get the impression most of the 16 and unders are there because parents are (call my cynical, perhaps)

[greywolf]

Hope so... the number of 18/20/21s is really low and I get the impression most of the 16 and unders are there because parents are (call my cynical, perhaps)

that might be case sometimes, more often round our way the parents are there because the children are keen...

Problem is both SINS and Scottish Champs require a Bank Holiday weekend

Why do the Scottish Champs require a Bank Holiday weekend? - the relay was won by midday Sunday

I'm not sure who in BOF (if anyone) is responsible for fixtures etc, but clashing the Scottish Champs and relays with a UKOL race elsewhere is ridiculous, especially when it's one of those years when the Scottish is closer to Manchester than Moray

[graeme]

You're cynical.

It's self-evidently true that nobody under 16 could get to the events without adults to drive them, but most of the 14s and 16s are there because they want to be (often with other people's parents). There was a good social atmosphere for the kids at SOC.

But the slow end of the 16s are already showing some long times. They're now faced with another big jump in course length and the "you have to be elite" mentality at 18. And it's much worse for anyone trying to get started in the sport at 18.

[awk]

Problem is both SINS and Scottish Champs require a Bank Holiday weekend, and there are not too many of those available.
The same two events are already scheduled to clash again in 2015.
Before UKOL I suspect it was considered that they are far enough apart geographically for this not to matter.

Accepted, but it's still ridiculous that British Orienteering goes down the route of initially putting the area championships back at the top of the pile, gives them Level A status, and then decides to completely undermine the event structure by ignoring them for the UKOL (in complete contradiction to the Masters Cup which aimed to enhance the event structure, by including the area championships). SINS should never have been designated a UKOL weekend.

[awk]

But the slow end of the 16s are already showing some long times. They're now faced with another big jump in course length and the "you have to be elite" mentality at 18. And it's much worse for anyone trying to get started in the sport at 18.

The York race (entry just under 200) had more M21s (20) than M55s (the biggest class at many events including, I'm fairly sure, the British and JK), and more running Men Open (18-35) than any other class. Women Open was also the biggest women's class.

One anecdotal example, but it seems to be a trend for Sprint/Middle/Urban.
(The entry for Day 2 for M21E versus Day 3, and M21L, is interesting too).

[King Penguin]

...in complete contradiction to the Masters Cup which aimed to enhance the event structure, by including the area championships)

... and any initial errors in Masters Cup points were quickly and easily corrected, unlike UKOL where it seems those affected just have to put up with not having them fixed. Would it not have been easier to bolt M and W open classes onto the Masters Cup ?

I do not think SINS applied for UKOL status; it was awarded by BOF central. I am not complaining about that, but there does seem to be an absence of joined-up thinking on the clash between UKOL and level A. I suspect HOC and WRE would have been disappointed if Scottish Champs hade been UKOL instead, as it may have reduced SINS entries. Maybe in cases like this they should both have been UKOL, giving the punters the choice of where to go ? That said, I spoke to one person in Ludlow on Sunday evening who had come down from the Scottish Champs and was therefore running in both.

[madmike]

That said, I spoke to one person in Ludlow on Sunday evening who had come down from the Scottish Champs and was therefore running in both.

Was aforesaid person a smallish M35 called Geoff by any chance or was there more than 1 fanatic chasing points?

[King Penguin]

Good guess !
and he also masqueraded as a M21S during the day on Sunday.

[awk]

suspect HOC and WRE would have been disappointed if Scottish Champs hade been UKOL instead, as it may have reduced SINS entries.

Possibly, although I don't recall it making a massive difference for Masters Cup - but even if it did, that's one of the risks you take when you clash with a Level A event.

Maybe in cases like this they should both have been UKOL, giving the punters the choice of where to go ?

Surely, one of the main points point behind a league is to bring people together to compete against each other, not deliberately split them up and diminish the competition.

That said, I spoke to one person in Ludlow on Sunday evening who had come down from the Scottish Champs and was therefore running in both.

Good for them! At least one person run all three of Ripon, Ludlow and York, and Leon won Ludlow, and then came second to Kris next morning at York, but don't think it's something we should be expecting!

There is also the issue that Ludlow had a numbers limit, which did prevent some people competing. I can't see that as being appropriate for a UKOL race.

[bendover]

Graeme

my intentions when highlighting the number of competitors on M18E and M20E weren't meant to be snide; I'm just genuinely surprised/saddened at the low figures.

when I was a junior, the Scottish Championships was an event that we looked forward to; of course we needed our parents or friends to help us get there, but i remember having plenty of competition on M16 and M18.

what has gone wrong? I'm too far removed from competitive orienteering now to know, but i can see that there are some suggestions.

I've been trying to remember if the Scottish Champs was a selection race when I was a kid, and whether that made a difference, but I don't think it always was.

[EddieH]

I seem to remember writing "RIP regional championships" when it became clear that the UKOL would not include most of them. I don't think I realised that it was deliberate sabotage of their own structure rather than lack of caring/ forsight.

I can only interpret nominating UKOL in competition with 2 of the best of the regionals as a deliberate ploy. Perhaps its best to be honest and scrap level As altogether. I cannot see why clubs will wish to continue putting them on - there are lots of extra regulations which amongst other things force up the cost a bit making them even less attractive to more peripheral punters.

I love the major events, but I wonder why and am eternally grateful to the large number of people that will not be troubling the top that regularly turn up. The JK still seems as popular as ever, the British is falling in popularity, but the regionals .......