Ticks - Policy

[DavidJ]

The following was on second page of the final details for a 'sprint' event today which involved some wooded areas:
"The forest is mostly runnable but there are areas of slower vegetation, it is for this reason that I advise you choose footwear and clothing that is more forest orientated than an average sprint."

However on the final page it stated:
"Ticks may be present, so full body cover is required in accordance with British Orienteering rules."

Apart from the apparent confusion between these two comments, is the presence of ticks now a reason for requiring full body cover when the health concern is to the individual rather than other competitors?

[Roger]

I thought that this was probably poor wording, and took it to mean
"Ticks may be present. Full body cover is required in accordance with British Orienteering rules."

[Sloop]

My understanding is that the full body cover rule is to protect against hepatitis, not ticks, and so ought to apply to any event where leg scratching is a possibility.

[Dangerous]

Saw this on BBC website earlier today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22468181

I had orienteered for a long time before I became aware of Lyme's disease.

There was an information and survey stand at a local ESOC CATI event.

Only once have I knowingly been bitten by ticks but other club-members have their own tales....

[Tatty]

Mike Tween, a former member of WIM contacted Lyme disease and was never really the same again.
Ticks are very common down here in the New forest area and we always check for ticks after ever event.

[madmike]

My understanding is that the full body cover rule is to protect against hepatitis, not ticks, and so ought to apply to any event where leg scratching is a possibility.

I think that was the original reason for the imposition in Sweden but in UK Lyme's disease is more likely. It seems to me that the rule protects against both Hep and lyme's and should be interpretted that way. I.E. i agree with Sloop but personally would include tick-zones too.

Last week I was discussing this very topic with a Swedish M70 (Urban Gullberg who was a club mate of Jan K) who actually ran at the event in Sweden way back when in which 4 or 5 people contracted hepatitis. Urban told me that they were all running in standard athletics shorts (as was the custom at the time) and he saw lots of blood on the brambles throughout the course - Urban beleives someone infected with Hep was running and it was a blood to blood transmission.

[graeme]

Lyme is certainly a concern and people should be warned about it. But ticks land on you, crawl about a lot, then find somewhere to bite, often hours later. I've had literally hundreds of tick bites. I wear long trousers, but they're about as effective against ticks as they are against crocodiles.

[madmike]

Lyme is certainly a concern and people should be warned about it. But ticks land on you, crawl about a lot, then find somewhere to bite, often hours later. I've had literally hundreds of tick bites. I wear long trousers, but they're about as effective against ticks as they are against crocodiles.

That can't be true as statistics conclusively prove they are 100% effective against crocodiles

[AndyC]

I now challenge madmike to spend some time in the local zoo's crocodile enclosure wearing only long trousers (OK he can have a shirt and shoes as well).
Now that does sound like an opportunity for some charity fund raising doesn't it?

[Tim]

Sorry a bit O/T but....

Last week I was discussing this very topic with a Swedish M70 (Urban Gullberg who was a club mate of Jan K) who actually ran at the event in Sweden way back when in which 4 or 5 people contracted hepatitis. Urban told me that they were all running in standard athletics shorts (as was the custom at the time) and he saw lots of blood on the brambles throughout the course - Urban beleives someone infected with Hep was running and it was a blood to blood transmission

My recollection was that these cases of hepatitis were contracted through sharing washing/bathing water after the event rather than transmission via vegatation.

A quick look back found this written in 2007:

In the beginning of the sixties close to 100 swedish orienteers were infected with hepatitis (whether it was hepatitis C or one of the other types no one really knows), a few died from the disease and some never recovered enough to ever run an orienteering-course again. All those who were infected had to spend several weeks isolated in a hospital. A first-hand account of this epidemia can be found in Per-Johan Perssons book "Orienteringsliv" (if you're the kind of person who enjoys reading 500 pages in Swedish about orienteering I recommend buying it here: http://www.lok.se/index.php?page=406 ).

The assumed way of transmission was not actually bare legs "rubbing" against the same bush but rather that runners with bleeding wounds bathed in the same small pond or washed in the same sink afterwards. The three main measures taken to fight the epidemia were:

1. A complete stop for all orienteering events in Sweden for half a year.
2. The introduction of the full-body-cover rule to lessen the amount of bleeding wounds.
3. Introduction of showers on all events. The important point about this is that the water can flow away freely and that no two competitors wash in the same water.

[madmike]

I now challenge madmike to spend some time in the local zoo's crocodile enclosure wearing only long trousers (OK he can have a shirt and shoes as well).
Now that does sound like an opportunity for some charity fund raising doesn't it?

Cheers Andy, I will pop down to the Zoo and check out the size of the crocodiles before committing myself

Define some time?

[madmike]

Sorry a bit O/T but....

Last week I was discussing this very topic with a Swedish M70 (Urban Gullberg who was a club mate of Jan K) who actually ran at the event in Sweden way back when in which 4 or 5 people contracted hepatitis. Urban told me that they were all running in standard athletics shorts (as was the custom at the time) and he saw lots of blood on the brambles throughout the course - Urban beleives someone infected with Hep was running and it was a blood to blood transmission

My recollection was that these cases of hepatitis were contracted through sharing washing/bathing water after the event rather than transmission via vegatation.

A quick look back found this written in 2007:

In the beginning of the sixties close to 100 swedish orienteers were infected with hepatitis (whether it was hepatitis C or one of the other types no one really knows), a few died from the disease and some never recovered enough to ever run an orienteering-course again. All those who were infected had to spend several weeks isolated in a hospital. A first-hand account of this epidemia can be found in Per-Johan Perssons book "Orienteringsliv" (if you're the kind of person who enjoys reading 500 pages in Swedish about orienteering I recommend buying it here: http://www.lok.se/index.php?page=406 ).

The assumed way of transmission was not actually bare legs "rubbing" against the same bush but rather that runners with bleeding wounds bathed in the same small pond or washed in the same sink afterwards. The three main measures taken to fight the epidemia were:

1. A complete stop for all orienteering events in Sweden for half a year.
2. The introduction of the full-body-cover rule to lessen the amount of bleeding wounds.
3. Introduction of showers on all events. The important point about this is that the water can flow away freely and that no two competitors wash in the same water.

intresting, thanks. Urban also mentioned friends of his who never ran again afterwards. I shall ask him about the washing water theory next week at the Middle Champs.

Edit: if i am not eaten by a crocodile in the interim

[andypat]

Yes that is interesting about the Hepatitis. I was about to query how this was relevant to orietneering, but it sounds more relvant to the lack of knowledge about blood borne viruses at the time. I doubt very much that you'd need to consider long trousers as a means of protection against any form of Hepatitis these days (at least within the sphere of orienteering)

[ifititches]

you'll find a fuller account of hepatitis B in Swedish orienteers in
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 3-0009.pdf
a few pages in.
I think it would be almost impossible to decide between the scratch theory and the washing theory, though I would think that shared brambles (as it were) would be a much more effective way of inoculating yourself with an infective dose. Of the blood-borne viruses which transmit like this, hepatitis B is considerably more infectious than HIV or Hepatitis C, and you can now be vaccinated against Hep B anyway. Hepatitis C would be my major worry in this country, in anyone already protected against Hep B. Hepatitis C is usually a silent infection in its acute stages, only presenting years later with liver damage. so it wouldn't be as obvious as Hep B if there were a problem

Having a professional interest in infections anyway, I have observed patterns of where I get bramble gashes close to controls, and it's often the case that the responsible bramble shows clear evidence of having been hit/trampled by someone else before myself (stating the obvious there really, but I'm a bit sad) The thicker lower leg protectors prevent drawing of blood most of the time, but the thinner protection on our upper legs offers much less assurance that the bramble will not be coated with blood when it strikes orienteers 2, 3, 4.....

[madmike]

I now challenge madmike to spend some time in the local zoo's crocodile enclosure wearing only long trousers (OK he can have a shirt and shoes as well).
Now that does sound like an opportunity for some charity fund raising doesn't it?

So I went down to the zoo (now a bioparc) on the way home from work and saw the crocodiles.

And I would just like to say to AndyC........ are you stark raving bonkers, those crocodiles have got a vicious streak a mile wide; they are killers.. they've got huge, sharp....Not even with Brother Maynard and the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

No way O trousers will keep them off, I was so scared I went down to the whistle shop and bought 6 anti-crocodile safety whistles......At least we know they work