CompassSport Cup/Trophy

[King Penguin]

Just as Blue is beyond some M20s, Light Green is well below what quite a few M18s are used to. I don't think running them on Green against 60s & 65s is the answer, but we can't escape the fact that jumping straight from Light Green one year to Blue (or Short Brown) the next is a big single step.
I don't have an answer, but we should remember this is a TEAM competition. There is a significant difference between a TEAM and simply adding up the 25 best individuals. Football teams don't play 11 forwards. If a goalie is sent off after all subs have been used someone has to go between the sticks and play well out of their usual position just the once.

[babs f]

Why would it be "fair" for last place on one course to score more than a top-half finish on another?

This is precisely what happened in the WMOA heat on Sunday on the current rules. Last place on Brown got 85, top half finish on Green Men got 70.

[graeme]

Light Green is ...

On most areas used for CSC, a well planned light green is indistinguishable from an M18 middle distance course on the same area.
Which only amounts to a positive spin what KP says.

any change is likely to favour some clubs over others.

So there's little case for or against such changes. However, changes which allow more people to be part of the club team seem like an unequivocally good thing, particularly when those people aren't the usual suspects for winning things.

Last place on Brown got 85, top half finish on Green Men got 70.

He should have run brown then, shouldn't he

[babs f]

Mind you, a W18 running up on Green Women and beating the next placed runner by 32% doesn't seem entirely fair either!

[awk]

Even with a change like this, the rules will still favour clubs with lots of juniors and vets – looking at the numbers of runners in the various results you can see that it is relatively easier to score points on these classes than on the bigger Blue/Brown classes

You mean, the same Blue course that is made up of junior and veteran men?!

[babs f]

He should have run brown then, shouldn't he

A bit cruel for an M70

[seabird]

Can't personally see the need to change the format. Like many, I always try and run in the cup, despite only being a "counter" once in 25 years. The current format seems the fairest I have encountered.

[King Penguin]

Mind you, a W18 running up on Green Women and beating the next placed runner by 32% doesn't seem entirely fair either!

She is a bit of a star - and the gap between 1st and 2nd on Mens Green (M60 over M65) was actually slightly bigger.

[King Penguin]

Light Green is ...

On most areas used for CSC, a well planned light green is indistinguishable from an M18 middle distance course on the same area.
Which only amounts to a positive spin what KP says.

I was thinking of course length rather than TD.

[King Penguin]

Why would it be "fair" for last place on one course to score more than a top-half finish on another?

This is precisely what happened in the WMOA heat on Sunday on the current rules. Last place on Brown got 85, top half finish on Green Men got 70.[/quote

I think that is a fair argument against dropping 2 points per place on Mens Green and only 1 point per place on Brown, when there are far more runners on Green than Brown.
(WM round 18 Brown Cup runners, 33 Green Cup - N.B. only 3 clubs in this round of the Cup if others think the numbers are low)

[awk]

I think that is a fair argument against dropping 2 points per place on Mens Green and only 1 point per place on Brown, when there are far more runners on Green than Brown.
(WM round 18 Brown Cup runners, 33 Green Cup - N.B. only 3 clubs in this round of the Cup if others think the numbers are low)

In terms of 'fairness' you're probably right. Personally, I think, its a class that we should be favouring, and am quite relaxed about it being easier to score good points on the Brown than on the Green.

[NeilC]

Why would it be "fair" for last place on one course to score more than a top-half finish on another?

Perhaps not, but then neither is the fact that the third best junior gets 6 points less than the third best senior.

I think the CSC does a good job of assessing the overall strength of a club. It is though a competition for the best, and not neccessarily for the masses, and so a decent balance has to be met between the total number of scorers, the number of classes, the max number of scorers per class and the differential between each scorer in each class. Personally I'd like to see results at the top of each class rewarded more than performances in the middle of the class. Haven't quite worked out how to do this yet but could involve something like scores in each class going from 50-31 for the top 20, then the next 5 or 10 all get 30 points, then the next 5/10 all get 29 etc.

[binman]

I think the CSC does a good job of assessing the overall strength of a club. It is though a competition for the best, and not neccessarily for the masses...

Never mind the quality feel the width is the way we should go. Being in a club that usually has to travel at least 100 miles to get to the qualifier never mind the final, persuading the 'average' runner (of which we have a fair few) that it's worth making such a journey would be made easier if they felt their presence might actually have an impact on the result.

[awk]

Never mind the quality feel the width is the way we should go. Being in a club that usually has to travel at least 100 miles to get to the qualifier never mind the final, persuading the 'average' runner (of which we have a fair few) that it's worth making such a journey would be made easier if they felt their presence might actually have an impact on the result.

Which, I think, emphasises my ongoing point, that it's the structure of the competition that is the issue, not the more detailed one of how points are scored.

[NeilC]

Never mind the quality feel the width is the way we should go.

How would you propose to do that? All runners currently score points and can affect an opposition's total, even if they don't end up being a counter for their club.