Demographics

[NeilC]

but at 90% of events it's TD4 or 5 only, unless you want to do children's courses.

On what data are you basing that figure? Most of my club's local events offer Yellow, Orange, Green and Blue courses with no indication that any are intended for adults or for children. At the last one the breakdown on the Orange was W14/W14/W60/M10/W11/M12/M60/W45/W50/M45/W50/Family/M12/M80/M40/M80/Family/M65

[sloaner]

1983 Midland Champs - How many University Clubs were represented where they all turned up in a minibus and had a good sociable fun day out, made good friends and got hooked on the sport?

Toughman - its as much about the camaradery and banter that goes on when you undetake the challenge together - all starting at same time

Adventure Racing - Most compete in teams which makes it far more sociable

Mountain Biking - People go around trails in groups, have a laugh then cake in cafe after

Orienteering - turn up, run, don't talk to anyone, go home - why would I go back?

[Ali Wood]

but at 90% of events it's TD4 or 5 only, unless you want to do children's courses.

On what data are you basing that figure? Most of my club's local events offer Yellow, Orange, Green and Blue courses with no indication that any are intended for adults or for children. At the last one the breakdown on the Orange was W14/W14/W60/M10/W11/M12/M60/W45/W50/M45/W50/Family/M12/M80/M40/M80/Family/M65

Just a suggestion - have a 'Middle Orange' course (somewhere between the current Orange and Long Orange offerings.) and heavily advertise it to newcomers especially athletic ones.

[Floss]

Well if I were still in my 20s and turned up to an event where over half the competitors were over 50, then I certainly wouldn't bother turning up again, no matter how much I had enjoyed my time in the forest.

[oo_wrong_way]

Orienteering - turn up, run, don't talk to anyone, go home - why would I go back?

I had exactly this feedback from a newcomer in her late twenties - along with a host of other constructive criticism regarding her perception of local orienteering. As a club we will be working through her points and addressing them all - most of them are valid. And there's the rub - could it be that we take ourselves too seriously?

And on the topic of being "forced" to run on the course deemed to be the right one for you based only on your age, should the Compass Sport Cup and Trophy rules be rejigged to allow those like me who prefer to run down to do so - perhaps using a handicap system? To be clear that is not so that I get a better result. It is my preference to enjoy the sport rather than get frustrated by the navigational challenge and/or injured by the physical one.

[roadrunner]

One of the factors must be where you're coming from. If you're already into running, then an Orange course will seem way too short, whereas a Green might be far too difficult; the Trail Challenge idea seems to work well in this case. On the other hand, if (like me when I started!) you haven't done any running before, then walking or jogging round a Green course is probably going to appeal more than a technically easy course - even if it takes a long while. Maybe the thing is that 30 years ago (before the running boom) most newcomers might have had some experience hill walking with a map and compass, whereas these days they're more likely to have done some running.

It would be interesting to know if the issues are the same overseas; I seem to recall that in some countries clubs do the race entries and the whole club travels together, which surely improves the social side.

[andypat]

Just a suggestion - have a 'Middle Orange' course (somewhere between the current Orange and Long Orange offerings.) and heavily advertise it to newcomers especially athletic ones.

On the face of it not a bad idea, but I've pointed out before the huge discrepancy between the experience of people on different Orange courses. Looking back at results you see courses won in 20min where all competitors get round in under 45min, to courses won in 40min where 70-80% are out for more than 1 hour and 15-20% DNF.

Orange seems to mean different things to different people and in different areas. This makes it difficult to simply say send them out on Orange.

I'm going to mention footwear too. We tend to advertise to newcomers they just need trainers and suitable clothing. When was the last time you ran a forest race (TD3+) in the wet in a pair of "trainers" and how did you get on?

[madmike]

It would be interesting to know if the issues are the same overseas; I seem to recall that in some countries clubs do the race entries and the whole club travels together, which surely improves the social side.

Yes indeed that is the system here in Italy. It does improve the social side. However, the age profile is in fact not that different; from Saturday:

12 x M12-15
8 X W12-15
10 X M16
10 x W16
11 x M17-39
10 x W17-39
17 x M40-59
11 x W40-59
8 x M60+
7 x W60+
2 x unknowns

There where no M17-39s older than 28 and not many of the 40-59s were under 45. I.E. a similar gap from post university to M45 methinks.

Pride of place went to a man born in 1933 who took on the M17-39s on the MA course (3hrs 34 mins 36 secs for 6.4KM ParkO against the winners 34.55).

Organiser was an M45, Planner M45 and Controller W50.

[Tim]

I was at the Midland Champs in ’83 (and won M15A – my only decent result ever) and I’m still orienteering. I didn’t go at the weekend as I couldn’t justify the time away from my disinterested family. I am currently keeping my entries to relatively local events, which still gives me good events every other week, which is the maximum time I can afford/negotiate. But and it’s a big but, I was a very infrequent competitor from 1990 to 1998 and had a 14 year gap until last year. So doing a little bit of maths shows that I fit the demographic perfectly.

Has BO ever had any market research undertaken on orienteering? Have they ever tried to answer the following questions?
1.What stops people trying the sport?
2.If they try it why don’t they continue?
3.Why do long term competitors drop out of the sport?
4.What keeps people doing the sport?

I doubt any of the answers revolve around technical difficulty of course and their length. What I think some of the answers are:

1.What stops people trying the sport? Geeky, uncool, difficult to get to, no single location, low media exposure
2.If they try it why don’t they continue? It’s difficult, complicated, opaque, time-trailing does not provide immediate competition, lack of immediacy of results (although this is sooo much better than in the olden days), lack of social aspect, no bragging rights as no one outside the sport understands it.
3.Why do long term competitors drop out of the sport? Changes in circumstances (family, location, work commitments), been there done that/boredom
4.What keeps people doing the sport? Beats me?

Time and expense are issues, but not just to orienteering. Competing in any sport requires travel and expense on equipment and accommodation.

You could argue that some of the above things that may deter a 21 year-old are less of an issue when you get older but nothing in these answers has changed in the last 30 years, so where have the M21s all gone? Does BO care and have they tried to find out? I am not suggesting that orienteering should be fundimentally altered but it might be worth tweeking it at the edges otherwise at this rate orienteering will die out in 25 to 30 years time, when the bulge of M/W45-60s reaches M/W70-85s and go off to run around forests in the sky.

[denbydale]

One thing that annoys me as far as trying to attract newcomers to the sport is when there is no legend on the map. One friend (used to OSmaps) who tried it on a moorland event (without the legend) said he'd struggled to find one particular control which was just before a small wood.
When I pointed out he should have run hard towards the wood then slowed as he approached it - he pointed to his map, 'Where's the wood?' I explained that the white area was woodland he said 'How was I supposed to know?'

[King Penguin]

4.What keeps people doing the sport? Beats me?

Visiting some fantastic parts of the country with great scenery. (yes I know you can do some of this just by walking, but some areas require special permission)
the combination of physical exercise with the mental challenge of map interpretation and quick decision-making
the fact that family members of all ages and abilities can participate at the same event on a course of suitable standard and length (many other sports cannot claim that)
the addictive nature of thinking "if only I could do that again I could do it so much better" (and having been dragged round a golf course a few times in the past I can see why that becomes addictive for some as well)
the continuing quest for the perfect run(s)
I think people's attitude to "I could have done that better" broadly falls into 2 camps - "I want another go to do it better" or "I'm sulking because I didn't get it right". The former will keep coming back for more, whilst the latter are lost causes.

[greywolf]

I'd happily do away with the multiple age groups. Leave the Juniors as now but then have x21-x40 as Seniors, c40 - x60 (or 65) as Vets, x60 (or 65) + Super-Vets. I would also leave the colour coding as now as it is an effective way of differentiating length and technical challenge.

Hmm could disincentivise people currnetly towards the top of their 5 year age band, particularly those asked to run against some one 25 years younger. One size does not fit all. At smaller events yes. At larger events no. I planned a small event here on Sat and we used following classes:
M/W12 / M/W16 / M/WA / M/WB / M/W40 / M/W60 / Beginners
That worked well for that event with 110 runners. ... I agree with your idea in broad principle but one size does not fit all and we need to be as inclusive as possible and not piss people off by giving a competitve M65 no chance of winning against a 39 year old. You are almost advocating having Gnitworp and Ravinous in the same class - and as good an orienteer as Gnitworp is he may be slightly overmatched in that case.

IMHO the ethos of local events should be as simple and sociable as possible, if this means the quickest are finished in 20 - 30 mins then that just gives them more time to chat and eat cake and help novices (and they can go for another run later). By all means keep your multiple courses and five year age categories for major competitions, but if the primary purpose of local events is to provide ego trips for M65s then the sport is truly doomed (don't know Gnitworp so not suggesting that's his motivation, btw). And as has been pointed out, in most of GB all those various courses are basically very long light greens...

I planned a local event the other weekend, it had > 110 competitors, and like all our local events it had just two courses, named short and long but effectively a 2k yellow catering mostly for primary school kids and complete beginners, and a 4k light green-ish number for everyone else. The sub zero temperatures kept the over 80s away, and the presence of some special guests meant the front of the race was a bit sharper than usual, but i don't think it made the slightest bit of difference to the M75 that he was doing the same course as a world champion, or that the W12 was bothered that she took twice as long as Spongey and Murray, probably quite the opposite - the friendly intergenerational rivalry is one of the most positive aspects of these events, and having as many as possible doing the same course can only help this.

[Tim]

The "beats me" comment was a bit tongue in cheek. I agree with all your answers but I also love running through knee deep near freezing mud (I once inadvertently went swimming when orienteering – that was taking it a bit far and I’ll try to avoid it in the future), impaling myself on trees, falling down crags, fighting with various forms of impenetrable undergrowth and finally ending up axle deep in mud when trying to get out of the car park. And that’s before you get me started on maps that are just all wrong and bear no relationship to where I think I am, controls that just won’t appear where I think they ought to be and other competitors who could do the decent thing and be a bit slower.

[madmike]

I planned a local event the other weekend, it had > 110 competitors, and like all our local events it had just two courses, named short and long but effectively a 2k yellow catering mostly for primary school kids and complete beginners, and a 4k light green-ish number for everyone else. .

That is exactly what they do with the local events around Rome. Works a treat.

[Glucosamine]

Those clubs that have low key informal event series are increasing their membership because there is a definite route into the more difficult and challenging 'forest event'.

I was going to suggest that where BOF supported clubnights have displaced the traditional summer evening club series, this might help explain the lack of recruits who will go on the run those M/W21 courses. But perhaps the clubnights do score on the social side, so is the key to improve the summer evening event social experience? That old favourite the nominated pub is all very well, but if the organiser and 'volunteers' are still retrieving controls then numbers can be rather thin. So lay on cakes and beer at the finish and winkle people out of those anonymising cars?