WMOC 2013 - Medical Certificates

[madmike]

Digging deeper, and more seriously, In Italy, school children at lower and upper secondary school are required to produce a medical certificate (certificato di sana e robusta costituzione fisica) from their school before participating in any sports activities.

The certification roughly translates as “Based on the visit I made, xxxx is of sound and robust physique and does not have, at present, or in the past, signs of mental and physical disorders such as”:

I am absolutely disgusted and appalled. No wonder you find Italy and France below the Peoples Republic of Iran in the Paralympic medal table.

Welcome to my world! Substitute examination for visit and your translation is about right. Not just kids, for all sports clubs you need a med cert to join that says there are no contraindications etc etc.

I am not currently certified to orienteer by my doctor (as he won't certify me to walk up stairs let alone run in the woods) so I have to fare fantasma (be a ghost) where I pay a lesser entry fee and am not timed or appear in the results, whilst I have a gentle walk. The same goes for several other club members (including one of our JWOC runners whose annual med cert has expired) - it is about 100 Euro to get the exam and cert done!

[aiming off]

Thank goodness we live in a society where BOF has got it right and have a policy of

"British Orienteering is fully committed to the principles of equality of opportunity and is responsible for ensuring that no job applicants, employees, workers, volunteers, members or participants (together ‘stakeholders’) are unlawfully discriminated against because of age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex and sexual orientation (together ‘protected characteristics’)"

Should the IOF condone the stance of Italy here?

[madmike]

Nothing IOF can do about it, it is CONI and national law. Orienteering for Hearing impaired is big here btw as it is actively encouraged.

[denbydale]

Nothing IOF can do about it, it is CONI and national law. Orienteering for Hearing impaired is big here btw as it is actively encouraged.

Perhaps I should orienteer in Italy more often then, because I never hear the beeps when 'dibbing'

[aiming off]

In Jan 2011, (for the first time in it’s history) the EU became a party to an international human rights treaty – the United Nation's (UN) Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities. The Convention aims to ensure that people with disabilities can enjoy their rights on an equal basis with all other citizens. It was the first comprehensive human rights treaty to be ratified by the EU as a whole. It was signed by all 27 EU Member States and ratified by 16 of these, including Italy.

It’s provisions include, generally
The principles of the present Convention shall be:
a. Respect for inherent dignity, individual autonomy including the freedom to make one’s own choices, and independence of persons;
b. Non-discrimination;
c. Full and effective participation and inclusion in society;
d. Respect for difference and acceptance of persons with disabilities as part of human diversity and humanity;
e. Equality of opportunity;
f. Accessibility;
g. Equality between men and women;
Respect for the evolving capacities of children with disabilities and respect for the right of children with disabilities to preserve their identities.
And specifically with respect to sport,
“With a view to enabling persons with disabilities to participate on an equal basis with others in recreational, leisure and sporting activities, States Parties shall take appropriate measures:
To encourage and promote the participation, to the fullest extent possible, of persons with disabilities in mainstream sporting activities at all levels;”

From what I’ve seen in this thread, I’m struggling to understand how the treaty obligations are being complied with here. CONI and National Law would appear to breach both the principles and specific provisions of a treaty that has been recently been signed by UK, Italy and the EU.

[madmike]

From what I’ve seen in this thread, I’m struggling to understand how the treaty obligations are being complied with here. CONI and National Law would appear to breach both the principles and specific provisions of a treaty that has been recently been signed by UK, Italy and the EU.

Not sure, perhaps here National Law often takes precedence over multinational treaties (in a similar vein France can extradite terrorists quickly and Italy has tried Horn of Africa pirates in Rome both of which are impossible in the flawed UK legal system - different things happpen in different legal systems) or maybe there is a "reasonably practicable" clause. It seems not all countries botched the implementation of HR into national law to make it happytime for lawyers! here they are concerned (overly) that people may die doing sport if they have a pre-existing condition and medical exams and certificates is the way they seek to mitigate it - like it or lump it (and keen orienteers lump it).

Probably best if you hire a lawyer to look into suing Italy if it bothers you that much. However, be warned in Italy every court case goes to the Supreme Court for the final decision, appeals at the 2 lower levels are mandatory and, accordingly, you might get an answer in the next 10 years or so. Italy has a civil law system as opposed to UK's common law and there are differences both systems have advantages and disadvantages and that may explain the difference but I don't know.

[madmike]

Nothing IOF can do about it, it is CONI and national law. Orienteering for Hearing impaired is big here btw as it is actively encouraged.

Perhaps I should orienteer in Italy more often then, because I never hear the beeps when 'dibbing'

We have shiny flashing LED thingys on SI for you but most events still use pin punching - some great terrain in Italy (just not where my Club do most low level events ).

Have run on an ajoining map to WOC2014 territory and it was tip top terrain, slope, complex contours, and low visibilty with high runnability - great


edit more Hs and less Ks in flasking

[roadrunner]

Nothing IOF can do about it, it is CONI and national law.

So how come the Venice race never needed it?

I can see the logic in encouraging people to check that they don't have any health problems - as the London Marathon does - but this does seem a bit Draconian. Incidentally, with road races the situation's just as inconsistent: France certainly requires medical certificates, while Germany, Portugal and the Netherlands certainly don't (I don't know about the rest).

[madmike]

Not sure abot Venice - but PWT Italy (MOC Scily 5+5 etc) operate outside FISO/CONI authority (presumably with private liability insurance) so can do what they want.

The requirement for med certs has also happened at some competitions in France. The rules as I understand them here, say med cert for FISO (or another CONI Federation for lower level events).

One way used to avoid the issue is to mandate that you must be a member of your national federation (leaving it to the national federation to decide on med cert or not). This was what I asked WMOC to consider but they are also constrained by WMG who have agreements with local authorities - la burocrazia italia makes this not an easy job.

The compromise of reduced med cert is the best solution to a tricky issue, I think, although DJM may know more on this.

Mind you at least with the better medical technology here I don't get holes shaved in my chest hair everytime I have to have an ECG

[aiming off]

It is fine encouraging people to check they don’t have any underlying health issues. What matters to me is whose decision it is about whether any health issue/disability is sufficient to deny access to competitive sport.

Malcolm is in my athletics training/coaching group. In his early teens he unfortunately suffered an illness that very severely impaired his strength and coordination. Neither following his illness, or now, could any member of the medical profession reasonably sign a declaration of the form required to enable Italian schoolchildren access to competitive sport.

Malcolm was very keen following his illness to have continued access to coaching, and maintain the ability to compete alongside able-bodied athletes in several athletics disciplines. Through a combination of his considerable determination, but also continued access to competitive sport, his performances have gradually improved.

He has now reached the level where he holds national records across several events within his disability class, one world record, and can compete alongside able-bodied athletes at English Schools level. The right to compete alongside athletes with no impairment is important. He is looking forward to Rio in 2016.

So it is for Malcolm, and Italian schoolchildren like Malcolm, that I assert that the decision about whether disability or health issues should prevent me from competing is mine, not my doctors, and that this stance is compatible with the UN Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities. I would hope that the IOF would agree with me, and seek to apply pressure appropriately.

[DJM]

... I assert that the decision about whether disability or health issues should prevent me from competing is mine, not my doctors, and that this stance is compatible with the UN Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities. I would hope that the IOF would agree with me, and seek to apply pressure appropriately.

All well and good, but the practicalities are that this can only be a debate for the future and not for now. We needed a decision about the medical certificate "yesterday" and not in several years' time!

The compromise of reduced med cert is the best solution to a tricky issue

Spot on, Mike!

[aiming off]

Agree: good pragmatic approach achieved in the circumstances for WMOC 2013: but for the future.

[NickC]

Medical certificates are required for all sports in France, including all orienteering events. You cannot join a club without one. If you wish to "run up" you have to be "super surclassified" meaning an active ECG plus lots of other tests.

[Oldman]

People here often criticise BOF for unnecessary bureaucracy - BOF deserve support for not requiring any of this Italian/French nonsense, because that's what it is.

[Gnitworp]

an active ECG plus lots of other tests.

I think a lot of veteran athletes' active ECGs would give some medics apoplexy