Cancellation - Was it my fault?

[sloaner]

The BBC forecast we saw in the pub in Nomansland the night before did not seem to suggest this amount of rain and whilst keeping an eye on the met office forecast the day before it kept changing.

In any case if there was a warning given on the website by SOC that there was heavy rain forecast and may cause issues, people will have still travelled (unless you got stuck in the 3-6 inches of unforecast snow in the area around Bath!!).... the decision was made at the only time it could have been given the conditions and SOC tried to get the message out as I understand (and I know alot of people were saved quite a few miles of travel as they were contacted by friends and club mates)

[graeme]

It's easy to be smug when you spent a sunny Sunday cycling sans-helmet with greywolf
But to pick up a few points...

Who'd be an organiser?

Me. I had the unpleasant experience of cancelling a event at 24hr notice two years ago, and deciding not to cancel another last year. As the organiser, I had better information than the competitors so wasn't bothered by uninformed comments. People will be disappointed, and comments like Nathan's are just what I would expect at the time. On reflection, I also expect orienteers to be more reasonable, as he was. All good.

Cancelling was certainly the easy option. In the second case there was a small (IMO acceptable) risk that a recently storm-damaged tree would fall on someone's head.
It required explicitly taking any liability from the landowner, and hoping competitors still have enough common sense to recognise that accidents can happen. Spending the day worrying about that wasn't fun, but it didn't happen and I still believe the decision was correct.

Now for two anecdotes.
The rerun event had one serious injury: someone stepped on a drinks can in a poorly lit tunnel which we were only using to avoid crossing a road. As a mapper, I've had one serious scare - a large piece of car flew across the central reservation on the M6 as I drove home from the mappers' safety course.

The point being, that its very tempting to write general rules and guidelines to try to increase safety, but they can often undermine the actual safety in a specific case.
It's one thing to back your own judgement, quite another to explicitly break a guideline. Had there been a well-meaning guideline about not using storm-damaged forests in the week after the storm, we'd have had little option but to make the (wrong) decision to cancel.

Seems to me the risk of cancelling the November Classic was pretty low. Sometimes it's higher: I reckon Edinburgh would be too dangerous on about 5% of January days (icy pavement & steps). I'm not involved this year, but in the past there's been a contingency plan to put something lower risk on at short notice.

[soc123]

The November Classic has been run for 45 years now, and I've been to 32 of them and the conditions early on Sunday morning are the worst I have seen. Nathan talks of freak weather conditions, and he is right. This was probably a once in 50 year occurance, so you cannot blame the planner for not planning to have things such as compulsory stream crossings. As regards a non suitable area as Nathan calls it, he probably doesn't realise the area was deemed good enough to host the 1980 British Championships - long before he was born.
By the way Nathan its SOC not SO. Grrrrrr.

[Jon Brooke]

This was probably a once in 50 year occurance, so you cannot blame the planner for not planning to have things such as compulsory stream crossings.

Ah good, a climate change debate.

Has anyone else noticed how many of these "once in 50 year" weather events we seem to be getting these days?

[youngladdie]

What happened to:
'Competitors take part at their own risk'?
If , as some have said, this doesnt mean anything, then dont write it on flyers. Otherwise, it is as it says and the individual should be responsible.
I am glad i didnt lose a days pay travelling down; accommodation costs; travel costs; entry fee..... As a poster says, the club will retain its entry fees; lose no money; BoF receive their levy....

[Jon Brooke]

What happened to:
'Competitors take part at their own risk'?

There are different levels of risk.

Competitors take responsibility for the small risks that the organisers expose them to.

If the organisers exposed them to too high a level of risk - lets say, by planting a few land-mines around the course - then they (the organisers) would probably find themselves liable in the subsequent inquest - even if they had written "watch out for the land-mines" at the top of the flyer.

The organisers have to think about what a reasonable person might think is a reasonable risk.

There are also different levels of reasonableness.

[andypat]

Thank BOF for controllers if youngladdie is ever actually in charge of organising an event

[Spookster]

BoF receive their levy....

No. BO levy is based on the number of participants, which was nil (well actually it was about 100 who went Wayfaring, but the total levy for that will be small).

[spur]

I respect the decision taken by the organising team in very difficult circumstances (and I travelled from Scotland). After a perfectly dry evening the night before I have never seen so much sudden waterlogging on the local roads the next morning (I previously lived in the area for 20 years). The bitter cold wind in the morning increased the risks for anyone that might have fallen in the swollen river.

Having been turned away on arrival at the car park, I was a little bit puzzled to hear later of some people starting including the wayfarers being available, but can only assume the fluid situation resulted in a bit of uncertainty. I went down to the coast and enjoyed a good walk in the afternoon sun!

Good luck to the club in putting on an event there at a later date.

[Mrs H]

Out of interest - what does the new event safety course say about this kind of situation?

[cbg]

CBG there is no need to personally nit picl through my posts, they are not directed at you personally so i don't think it is far that you are quoting and commenting on everything i put

I plead innocence! Not me guv. Awk would also not have been personal, just addressing each of your points in turn. The fate of a poster on a forum used by older adults ... (I think).

But good of you to recognise your intemperate initial comment; well done. "Act in haste, repent at leisure" is a lesson well learnt, some more expensively than others.

[Oldman]

We need to back our event officials rather than analyise and question every decision they take. Who would be an Organiser ?

Hear! Hear!

[awk]

CBG there is no need to personally nit picl through my posts, they are not directed at you personally so i don't think it is far that you are quoting and commenting on everything i put

I plead innocence! Not me guv. Awk would also not have been personal, just addressing each of your points in turn. The fate of a poster on a forum used by older adults ... (I think).

And I plead guilty! You summarise exactly cbg. Nathan - you saw it as nitpicking, and I can see why. I saw it as dealing with each of the several points you raised in turn. I was trying to avoid cherry picking.

Arnold, I was and am not in the 'in favour of cancellation' corner. I am in the corner of recognising that the decision is for the organisers, and whatever we think, they are the ones who bear responsibility if something goes wrong, and the ones who are likely to be in the best position to judge the facts at the time the decision has to be taken.

[AlanB]

Do any of the entries systems support this? If not how much would we be prepared to pay on our entry fees for the facility?

SPORTident offer it it as part of their online entries package. They use it for some events to SMS results to competitors.[/quote]

I seem to remember the Lakes 5 using that system when they had to cancel one of their days in 2010. We got an SMS the night before warning us that there might be problems, then another one when we were on the way confirming the cancellation.

It didn't stop one individual having a strop on here afterwards, though.

[SeanC]

Sounds like something for fabian4 and oentries to work on then? SMS may not be necessary with enough smartphones, email push should do.

I know there are some within clubs who say "you should always check the club website before you go" but a last minute cancellation is quite rare, and unless it's been snowing usually unexpected, so some means of broadcasting/push messaging seems like the way forward.

Come on everyone, please cheer up/move on. First forest Kent Night Cup is this week, brand new area (might have been part of Badgers Mount before sliced by the M25?), nice and steep, top of a hill, chalk soil (no streams )