Cancellation - Was it my fault?

[Nathan.]

I wsn't launching a personal campaign against anyone or a club or anything like that i just felt what i'm sure many people did, and that was annoyed at having spent the weekend there and not been able to do the race i was looking forward to, so sorry organiser and SO as a club

[madmike]

I wsn't launching a personal campaign against anyone or a club or anything like that i just felt what i'm sure many people did, and that was annoyed at having spent the weekend there and not been able to do the race i was looking forward to, so sorry organiser and SO as a club

Well done Nathan, big of you.

sunglasses.gif (770 Bytes) Viewed 4237 times

PS you might be apologising to the wrong club

[mikey]

I wsn't launching a personal campaign against anyone or a club or anything like that i just felt what i'm sure many people did, and that was annoyed at having spent the weekend there and not been able to do the race i was looking forward to, so sorry organiser and SO as a club

Well done Nathan.

Good luck in your selection race or races.

[Arnold]

So it looks like I'm in the minority in thinking that the event should not have been called off. But for me the key comment in the thread is Eddie's:

I am sure that when I started orienteering cancellation would not have been considered. One of my earliest events was a November Classic and the stream I crossed there was far deeper and faster flowing than anything yesterday

I'm sure that comment even applies to 10 years ago. The conditions yesterday were tough but not that tough. It's crazy to suggest people might have died or be seriously injured.

So I'm sorry I still stand by my view that it was wrong to cancel the event. Whether it was the wrong decision on the day, or whether it was the right decision on the day but in a "wrong" environment of excessive health-and-safety I don't know, but either way it's a shame.

Two more thoughts:
- I was actually at the event, talked to a lot of people in the car park and in the forest, and went out to see the stream for myself. So I find it funny getting told off for having an opinion by people who weren't even there.
- I'm genuinely surprised that opinion seems to be so firmly in the cancellation / "safety first" camp.

[ifor]

So it looks like I'm in the minority in thinking that the event should not have been called off. But for me the key comment in the thread is Eddie's:

Well I was not there so have no real knowledge but I was rather suprised the event was canceled given typical new forest terrain. I also very much doubt it would of been canceled 20 years back and am sorry to see things changeing in this way. Had I been there I would of undoubtedly of go for a run in the terain in a similar way to the last time I was at an event that was canceled when I don't think it should of been.

Ifor

[greywolf]

whether or not the event would have been cancelled when Eddie started orienteering is irrelevant: pretty much everything about the sport (except possibly Eddie's kit ) has changed in the intervening years, much of it for the better...

[Vidalos]

So how will the sport learn from this ? Clearly people have different risk tolerance and acceptance levels and that will always be so which will always provoke debate about any decision .

But do the guidelines and event rules cover this ? I looked for some guidance yesterday and struggled.

I like others I guess now have two similar events cancelled in the last 12 months both level B and actually if you consider they were both selection races I think it's 2 cancelled out of the last 5 for Interland selection races.

Is it time to look at this whole process properly or do people feel the current rules and guidance are adequate ?

[madmike]

Not just about guidlines/rules though is it?

There is the training for Organisers and Controllers and of course the new event safety course, which I understand focuses well on managing risk (re risk avoidance/risk aversion).

[Vidalos]

Agree Madmike, but what seems important is properly revisiting the risk assessment the night before the event when all the most current information is available from the area and updating the mitigation and contingency arrangements. And if people really want to bring safety to the top of the agenda it must also include people travelling to the event as well as what happens when they get there



On a lighter note I guess we can now look forward to future events where I'll need eye protection to go through areas of fight, a hard hat to run under crags, carry a rope for steep ascents and inflatable arm bands just in case !!!

[Clive Coles]

We need to focus on where the responsibility resides. You can question, or reinforce rules and guidelines until the cows come home, but it is the people on the ground who have to make a judgement.

In this instance that responsibility resided with the club and more specifically with the organiser. They assessed the conditions and reached a conclusion. The fact that the event was an Interland selection race was unfortunate but should not in my opinion be a reason for relaxing what appears to a position based on safety concerns.

We need to back our event officials rather than analyise and question every decision they take. Who would be an Organiser ?

[greywolf]

So how will the sport learn from this ? Clearly people have different risk tolerance and acceptance levels and that will always be so which will always provoke debate about any decision.

It's not so much about individual's differing assessment of risk, as about the differing tolerance of risk when out on our own cf. when responsible for others (especially when many of them might not be quite so physically capable). Individually, we can be a bit cavalier about our own safety, encouraging others in our care to do the same would be downright reckless.

It's easy to parody H&S excesses, and we're undoubtedly more conscious of it than 30 years ago, but this is not entirely a bad thing. 20 or 30 years ago no-one ever wore a bike helmet, now almost everyone does (even me, sometimes): namby pamby H&S nonsense, or sensible precaution?

[GillJ]

Vidalos said "Agree Madmike, but what seems important is properly revisiting the risk assessment the night before the event when all the most current information is available from the area and updating the mitigation and contingency arrangements."

In this case revisiting the risk assessment night before would NOT have shown up the unexpected 3 inches of rain which fell in the area. Safety of all competitors must come first.

let's support our organisers and volunteers who work so hard to give us great events.

[Vidalos]

It's not so much about individual's differing assessment of risk, as about the differing tolerance of risk when out on our own cf. when responsible for others (especially when many of them might not be quite so physically capable)

Whilst I understand very well the point you are making here and it is where other sport and leisure interests have gone it would be a slippery slope for orienteering (no pun intended) . If this adopted as the norm then many of the orienteering events I've attended this year should have been cancelled using this as the basis because they nearly all would have been dangerous to an unacceptable level for the 'not quite so physically capable' . Where and how do you draw the line in a consistent way ?

[andypat]

Two more thoughts:
- I was actually at the event, talked to a lot of people in the car park and in the forest, and went out to see the stream for myself. So I find it funny getting told off for having an opinion by people who weren't even there.
- I'm genuinely surprised that opinion seems to be so firmly in the cancellation / "safety first" camp.

I'm not sure its right to say that opinion is firmly in the cancellation camp, but neither would I suggest that going out to see the stream for yourself qualifies you to take a decision on whether or not the overall event is safe. Did you assess the stream at all possible crossing points for the courses on the day? Did you have accurate information about the possible effect of any rainfall upstream that might cause the water to rise further during the event?

I'm entirely with AWK on this one. What might be useful is if the organisers were to debrief the event scenario and disseminate any guidance that might be useful to other planners/organisers out there for future events.

[Vidalos]

In this case revisiting the risk assessment night before would NOT have shown up the unexpected 3 inches of rain which fell in the area. Safety of all competitors must come first

I disagree here , I sat in the hotel the night before , happened to catch the waether forecast on the TV and that's excatly what it said it was going to do so that was known information