Quick question

[lostdog]

Can I just make it clear, he made it round this course, and in a reasonable time. He jsut wasnt as confident as normal (perhaps a good thing)
The course he got lost on was the YBT course in essex, which I dont think is on route gadget which is why Leanne posted this link.
Most others did fine on the YBT course as well, it was just my lad who got lost and we had to actually go find him. I was only asking incase it was my fault for letting him do level c, and it was actually harder.
However it seems its not and he perhaps just had a bad day at YBT and that knocked his confidence for this course.

[NFKleanne]

As a relative newbie - only 5 years - have been talking to lost dog on face book, and told her I thought the course was okay, the only thing I was not sure about was 1 - 2 as in guidelines I read the first few controls should be TD1 to build confidence, and I was not sure if I was.

The difference between these courses
and the others is that the majority of courses he has done previously have used paths completely.

Being positive (which is something i haven't been about orienteering for a while) - for both the youngster and the planner whose first event planning it was - he completed the course - and has worked out where he went, in the comfort of his home! And the planner - produced some very good courses, by using line features he got the kids of the paths for part of the course. Even I had a good run and thoroughly enjoyed it, and even though people has issues I think it was an excellent first attempt at planning!

[NFKleanne]

Remember lost dog - he's only been doing orienteering a few months and should be proud of what he's done. he finished the course and should be proud of that. Plus he will learn more from his mistakes - than having a perfect run!

[Red Adder]

Just to concur with Leanne that it was the planner's first event. I've planned & controlled at Ickworth several times over the years and the large areas of sheep pasture between the blocks of wood (with electric fences that can be moved at the last moment) and fixed parking area mean it can be surprisingly difficult to design a [u]set[/u] of courses that are as consistently interesting and appropriately difficult as you may wish. At least the white is genuinely very runnable and the views over the valley very good. I'm also told that the wine from on site vineyard is very palatable.

[EddieH]

Not being on the ground one cannot say, but on paper I don't like 1 - 2 asgoing from the path to the ditch is not making a decision at a decision point. Deciding to leave a path (obvious) for a ditch (possibly small) is a much bigger ask. As a controller I'd definitely not accept leg 9 as it clearly has route choice. The solution to both of these is to have the control beyond where it is, i.e place no 2 ON the ditch where it is easily visible from teh path, and put number 8 on one of the paths beyond the junction. There is absolutely nothing wrong with expecting a yellow competitor to arrive at the junctiojn and decide which way to turn - in fact it makes it less white at that point.

[suffolk wilk]

I was controller for the event at Ickworth and spent a long time with the planner looking at routes we could use for the yellow. Leg 1 to 2 was along the open/wood boundary next to the ditch and I ensured that control 2 was visible from where the path left the wood leaving 1 to help the participants. leg 5 to 6 was also along a strong boundary between a wood and a field of maize. again control 6 was visible very soon after leaving control 5. agreed about the route choice leg which was not the best. However I ensured the control at 7 was set to send the orienteer along one of the paths much like on a white course rather than being positioned at the junction. It was a harder yellow than found around most of East Anglia but they can be found like that in other parts of the country. My apologies if he found it hard. I hope he isn't put off by it but spurred on by the fact he got round it and therefore is learning to orienteer well. I was at the area around control 2 and 3 at first and then after the first ten or so yellow had negotiated the area well I moved to the finish and around registration and start for rest of the day listening to feedback and would be grateful next time if you came over and had a chat. Planners and controllers are always approachable at events for that purpose. They need to know whether there decisions are good ones or where things can be improved. It would help me understand any issues arising on the course as well as being able to help your son improve. As a sideline I am also junior squad coach so happy to pass on any tips I may have

[lostdog]

Clive, he was fine at Ickworth, just not as confident as he had been before. But as I said earlier I think that was because he got so lost at YBT. I didnt have any problems with the course worth mentioning and was just asking generally if level c was harder than level d.
I didn't ask or expect the planners, controllers etc to be analysised, I was just trying to find out the difference in level c and d incase I was expecting too much. This sort of info for a parent with no experience of orienteering isnt the easiest of things to find out. Help is always freely available at events however its not always easy to know what questions to ask.
Now I know there isnt much difference in course at d or c level, I can reassure him of that ahead of an event this weekend, as I personally think it was his anticipation that it could be harder that made him find it harder. (iyswim)


PS for the record I also don't have any problems with the course at YBT, most managed it without a problem.

[lostdog]

UPDATE..

Thanks everyone for your replies, it spurred me this morning to retrieve the essex map from the recycleables and get my child to talk me through the map.
We have now been able to identify the two things that caused him problems. The first is so simple and just lack of experience. The first point was after a left turn on the path so the little start box arrow thing on the map pointed left, he assumed the start box faced that way, where as in fact it was a 90 degrees to the control, he failed to realise this. This is purely as all the other courses hes done, the first point has been straight ahead of the start box so he has always run in a straight line, where as he should have run straight and then turned left. Then later on he took a wrong path, which via a long way round got him to the control he was lookng for, but of course from a different direction that he thought, so he set of having not realised he approached from a wrong direction.
All good learning.
Also I read a really good post on here about moving from yellow to orange and using CASH. We have sat and looked at some unfamiliar courses on route gadget and got him to talk me through it. He had no idea about noticing features to prove he had gone wrong, and I think just ran blindly on hoping for the best LOL.
Never really knew much about route gadget, but can see it being very useful for us both.

[Red Adder]

As the controller states the Ickworth Yellow was a bit harder than some EA Yellows, so perhaps its worth mentioning this to your son as a way of further encouragement - it was harder but he still succeded. You may also want to check out the Yellow at SOS (Exxex Stragglers) event at Hatfield and Wall Wood as a training exercise. It defintely the correct standard but pushes the competitor given the relatively long first leg with a decison point just after the start and, after a set of easier legs on paths, has a section using ditches and streamlets as handrails. Its may also worthwhile to contrast it withe the White, which is very guided around the paths and the Orange which has several controls off paths and opportunities to choose between different simple routes and cut across between line features. [I'd actually describe as a pretty good set of TD1-3 courses that could be use to instruct planners / controllers].

[lostdog]

Excellent idea thanks, we will do that

[Mrs H]

Lostdog - are you sure orienteering isn't your thing - your previous post showed such a good grasp of basic principles and problems I can't quite believe you are as indifferent as you say. Might it be possible for you yourself to have an outing on an orange by yourself I have a feeling you might enjoy the mental exercise if not the physical.

In my experience terrain can make courses seem harder even though the rules are adhered to. Once he starts noticing the other stuff on the map this should even out. Also some children don't mind getting lost - they quite enjoy the adventure. My rule of thumb out in the forest is to give a child their location if they ask for it (so they can relocate) but not show them where to go unless they are upset.

You're doing a great job - well done and good luck.

[andy]

We have now been able to identify the two things that caused him problems. The first is so simple and just lack of experience. ...

Every issue you describe could be solved with some basic compass work. Whenever he reaches a path junction or a control, teach him how to do a simple compass/map orientation. If he can grasp that he's sorted on white/yellow courses...

[Mrs H]

A clip on compass is great - just to show which way the map should be.