Quick question

[lostdog]

What is the difference between level c and level d courses.
For some reason my youngest who flew round level d courses has struggled at the last 2 events on the same colour couse, but a level c event.
Are they harder?

[AndyC]

Shouldn't be the guidelines are the same but level D's are usually done on simpler areas where it may not be possible to get the "Technical Difficulty" up to the correct standard.
Which courses are they attempting?

[SeanC]

For Yellow to Light Green forest courses, there should be no difference in standard between the same colour on a level D and a level C. The difference in the levels refers to some quality standards that are required.... most orienteers aren't sure what they are exactly (including me) but the key one is that at a level C event there must be a controller to check course standards, and level D tends to have no controlling, so maybe the level D course was planned too easy for the standard. What colour is your youngest running?

As AndyC says, for other courses for eg a Green course technically is "as hard as the area allows", and level C events on average tend to use the more tricky (technically) areas, so the standards might have been met, but one be much harder than another

What orienteers really need is another massive debate on how many levels we should have and another reclassification of physical/technical difficulty.

[graeme]

Yes and no.

In principle they shouldn't be harder, the colours should equate to "technical difficulty" on a 1-5 scale defined by what skills are needed.

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/i ... ndix_b.pdf

However, in practice one often sees...
TD1 - all along the paths, control at each junction
TD2-4 progressively harder
TD5 - as hard as you can make it

...and since level 3 events tend to be on harder areas than level 4, the courses end up harder.

[Sunlit Forres]

... except at Moravian's events where it tends to be the other way!

[frostbite]

Colour standards should be consistent across events, but interpretation of the guidelines varies from planner to planner and from controller to controller. It is more likely that the level D events were too easy for the colour (because there is no controller). It is also possible that the level C courses were too hard.

Also if there is no White course at a level D event then the planner may tend to plan the Yellow towards the easier end of the guidelines. If there is a White course then the Yellow is made a bit harder as a progression from the White.

Perhaps you could post a link to Routegadget for one of the level C events that your child has run? There are some experienced controllers on here who can discuss whether or not it meets the guidelines.

[lostdog]

Hi
Its only a yellow course, hes 10, and had done really well last year, his first year.
Started ok this year, then went to the YBT qualifier got totally lost, has done another course since then as well, but wasnt really confident then either.
I might have to follow him until he gets his confidence back - or in reality until I get my confidnce back that he knows what hes doing.

[King Penguin]

Shadowing does no harm, but give him enough time and space to make his own decisions and only dive in if definitely going well wrong i.e. don't stay so close that you end up doing all the decision making.
I went back to shadowing one of mine for a few events in his early days after he had a couple of bad outings on his own.

[NFKleanne]

Here's the link - -
http://www.suffoc.routegadget.co.uk/cgi ... =49&kieli=

If you want I can follow him - I know how much you despise orienteering - and I did talk you all into giving it a go!

[greywolf]

It's easy to be critical just looking at Routegadget after the event but based on the gospel according to Barry Elkington "The route should be all along obvious line features such as tracks, paths, fences, walls, rivers, large ditches and very distinct vegetation boundaries (e.g. forest / open land), with no route choice." I'd suggest that legs 2 & 9 are a bit questionable ... but of course they may have been taped on the ground, and he may have got lost somewhere completely different.

However it may be a better approach to go over the map with him and see if he understands where and how he went wrong - and what he should have done / will do next time. All orienteers make mistakes, the good ones learn from the experience and don't make them again, the rest of us idiots keep making the same mistakes again and again

[AndyC]

As long as the vegetation edge between 6 & 7 is distinct enough to be used as a line feature and the ditch between 1 & 2 is visible everything can be done along line features (with an invitation to cut corners that is strictly Orange but acceptable IMHO) , the important decision points have controls (possibly too many are marked but that is the way to err with developers) so it seems a straightforward Yellow course with the opportunity to make errors that shouldn't be too serious.
There is actually a route choice between 8&9 which there strictly shouldn't be as the guidelines say "no route choice" but both are along paths and roughly equal so I see no harm (IMHO again).
If the planner/controller is watching -sorry to dissect publically but it does seem OK so it is just a setback in the youngster's progression not a bad course (IMHO of course)
(written before greywolf posted but we don't really disagree

[lostdog]

Thanks for your comments. He went a bit wrong getting to point 2 and point 5, but i think he would have been ok, if it hadnt been on the back of getting very lost the week before.
He made it round which was the main thing. I was just asking not to critise the course but to check i wasnt asking too much of him in doing level c, as its really not my thing and i dont really get the whole orienteering thing, but the kids like it so I take them. Hubby has even take it up now!

[graeme]

Looks fairly straightforward except for 1-2.
Olive green means "You're not allowed in here and we're not even telling you what's there"
So the correct method is "follow the edge of the thing that we're not telling you what it is"

If you don't know all that, and at 10 you probably don't (!) it could certainly be tricky. So don't be put off by that.

At the other end, the Brown course looks pleasant enough, but I wouldn't say success on it prepares you for brown courses everywhere.

[frostbite]

I would agree with Andy - a perfectly reasonable Yellow course. At this level you should get the chance to discuss the course with your child before they start. You need to look out for things they might not be familiar with - such as using the veg boundary as a line feature, or any descriptions they may not have seen before, just give them a bit of guidance.

[lostdog]

LOL yes there is chance to discuss before he runs, but im not sure me telling him would be much help. I am mappingly challenged!