Carlisle City Race

[Marco Polo]

Is this thread getting shorter?

[EddieH]

Even though I am familiar with both specs, the day after London I was wondering why the uncrossable wall appeared to be a hedge - then it suddenly dawned on me that my spikes were crunching on a road

[pete.owens]

I hope they also do something with the symbol for hedge (black/green) which is very difficult to tell from a dark green veg strip.

Indeed. I think it would be best for mappers to avoid using the normal dark green "fight" symbol on sprint maps. I remember having to be very careful at the JK in Belfast to check which vegetation we were allowed to fight our way through and which was OOB. I also find it confusing when the black/green rather than olive is used for areas that are passable but prohibited.

[roadrunner]

I hope they also do something with the symbol for hedge (black/green) which is very difficult to tell from a dark green veg strip.

Indeed. I think it would be best for mappers to avoid using the normal dark green "fight" symbol on sprint maps. I remember having to be very careful at the JK in Belfast to check which vegetation we were allowed to fight our way through and which was OOB. I also find it confusing when the black/green rather than olive is used for areas that are passable but prohibited.

I agree too - given the variation in print colours that you get, I find it had to be sure which of these a feature is unless I can see examples of both on the map.

[EddieH]

I remember discussing which bits were fight and which were forbidden at a Scottish sprint. We all had opinions which were which but discoverd from the mapper that there was no forbidden green on the map.

I lost a JK sprint because I didn't risk a block of fight in case it was forbidden.

Quite the worst ISSOM symbol there is.

[andypat]

FWIW my suggestion for a symbol for a hedge would be the same as an ISSOM wall but with a semi circle tag (sort of like one side of an ISOM stone wall). Whatever it should be thick and black!

[buzz]

.... it doesn't matter WHY it is marked as OOB - it, is, so don't do it!!! Without knowing the reasons, you could potentially lose an area's permissions for either a good number of years, or forever - this has happened in the past

It does, however, matter HOW it is marked as OOB - if you use Olive Green then a significant percentage of the competitors (those that are colour blind) won't be able to distinguish it from yellow and could inadvertantly stray into it. As you say this risks losing permissions for future events quite apart from distorting the results.

If anyone on the events or mapping commitees is interested in doing soemthing about this problem I'd be pleased to help.

[Scott]

If anyone on the events or mapping commitees is interested in doing soemthing about this problem I'd be pleased to help.

I'm not sure whether or not this has been posted on here before, but anyway: IOF Map Commission are looking into the issue of appropriate printing colours for orienteers with colour-defective vision as parts of the ISOM201X project.

There aren't many details online, but the minutes of the Jan 2012 IOF Map Commission meeting say "Ales Hejna was seeking names of colour deficient competitors to help with the project". If you're interested in getting involved, I suggest emailing ales.hejna@olles.cz

[graeme]

andypat=FWIW my suggestion for a symbol for a hedge would be ...
eddieh=Quite the worst ISSOM symbol there is...

I'd suggest using the correct ISSOM colour: 50% black+100% green.
The Carlisle map looks like 100% green only.

Livingston uses mainly 100% green, except some major hedges. It means "you'd be pretty daft to cross it, but we're not going to DQ you." (and whaddaya mean "I haven't entered Livingston": https://oentries.com/event/details/278- ... end-soul-5 )

[andypat]

I'd suggest using the correct ISSOM colour: 50% black+100% green.
The Carlisle map looks like 100% green only.

Thats easy in principle but black green still looks more green than black to me.

Livingston uses mainly 100% green, except some major hedges. It means "you'd be pretty daft to cross it, but we're not going to DQ you."

...except for the major hedges presumably?

[dustytoo]

Well, it would make the maps a bit startling, but if instead of solid olive green we had stripy olive green, it would meam any hashed area was OOB, regardless of colour. Perhaps could do the same for uncrossable veg - dark green with black stripes!

[Ali Wood]

I hope they also do something with the symbol for hedge (black/green) which is very difficult to tell from a dark green veg strip.

I think we ought to emphasise the gravity of this discussion:
The colour of the obstacle on the map should reflect what colour the orienteer becomes /feels like afterwards...
Heavily bruised..... >>>>>>>>>
Thorn hedge............ >>>>>
Field of liquorice........... >>>>
Coward's route avoiding any discomfort.... >>>>>
Boundary crossed obeying all the OOB rules......
Having seen someone find a better route...... >>>>>
Herd of cows...... >>>>>

[graeme]

...except for the major hedges presumably?

I *think* they all have OOB on one side. We may not be able to DQ you, but you wont gain time. And given their propensity for Rottweiler concealment, you'll deserve everything you get .

[andypat]

Warning duly noted! Having just watched the hot dog episode of Big bang Theory I've no wish to encounter rottweillers...