Carlisle City Race

[AndyC]

Are Spookster and the two Andys are talking about different OOB carparks?

having re-read what AndyC wrote, quite possibly, I'm talking about the one near the near the start/finish.

and I'm talking about the one due W of Control 153 (No 17 on Course C)

[Spookster]

and I'm talking about the one just east of the castle.

car-park.jpg (131.31 KiB) Viewed 4454 times

[AndyC]

Very different car parks!

[distracted]

Why do some orienteers have such a flagrant disregard for the rules?

The impassable barrier problem has been done to death on here - both in urban and 'forest' events.

Now there's 2 examples on the same weekend of people running through olive green OOB - here, and across a bridge at the Windsor/Eton event.

I haven't seen the Carlisle map, but it seems highly unlikely to me that someone can run through these areas without seeing that it is olive green on the map? A block of colour is a bit more obvious than a thick black line, although sounds like those who transgressed in Carlisle turned it into a 2-for-1 deal...

It makes you wonder whether these same people just happily ignore OOB areas in the forest too.

[AndyC]

It was red striped OOB at Carlisle-even harder to miss and the fence is double tagged to show uncrossable as well as a thicker black line.

[cbg]

As has been stated on other threads, people don't read the rules, regulations or Laws (depending on sport). The referee/umpire is merely another 'competitor' to be beaten. If there is no-one there to stop/catch you ... Furthermore, there are quite a few orienteers who don't actually know where they are all the time (shock horror). And there are even some who don't even read the erudite posts on Nopesport. Last point - lots of people do not now print off Final Details; I often only require about 8 items (where, when, which course, SI/EMIT (can be embarassing), how far, scale, how far from CP to Assembly and on to which Start). I can see that others skate over other information that may be rather important; not the least that they then 'brain-dump' during the event. (At Windsor I knew which bridge we had to cross (it has been there for at least 38 years!); just naming it would not have made as much sense to someone knew to the area - a sketch/diagram would perhaps have been better in retrospect.)

So, whilst the ethos of golf is our ideal, I would be surprised if 25% of those infringing OOB are doing so deliberately.

[drobin]

As there was only one bridge in Windsor/Eton we were allowed to cross, why not put a control on it?

[Ali Wood]

So, whilst the ethos of golf is our ideal, I would be surprised if 25% of those infringing OOB are doing so deliberately.

Mmmm...golf.... no, when orienteering I NEVER search for the control in an area where no one is watching me, drop a kite from my pocket, and say, "Hey, I found it!"

[andy]

Why do some orienteers have such a flagrant disregard for the rules?

I don't think they do, I think it's ignorance / being crap at navigating.

(I was talking about the same car park as Spookster)

[graeme]

Anyone with experience of sprint/urban, or who read nopesport in the last 5 years, will have known that people were going to run across that carpark. If it was dangerous, the organisers have a duty of care to use a marshal to ensure people go round, as they did for the in-bounds road. If it isn't dangerous, why mark it OOB in the first place?

ISSOM needs a symbol for "it's allowed, but be careful if crossing here". Since ISSOM allows four shades of urban brown without explaining what the difference is, one could be used for this.

[roadrunner]

As there was only one bridge in Windsor/Eton we were allowed to cross, why not put a control on it?

The only other bridge (completely) on the map was the railway bridge, I don't imagine anyone thought they could cross that. Interesting point, though: is anything beyond the edge of the map implicitly OOB even if not mapped as such (not that that was the case here)? If not, then IMHO you wouldn't have a fair competition.

[Street]

ISSOM needs a symbol for "it's allowed, but be careful if crossing here". Since ISSOM allows four shades of urban brown without explaining what the difference is, one could be used for this.

There is. And it causes problems because it looks very similar to the forbidden area.

Maja Alm had an incident involving it at the World Cup in St. Gallen.
http://news.worldofo.com/2012/06/24/pos ... d-results/

[Karen]

[quote]is anything beyond the edge of the map implicitly OOB even if not mapped as such [quote]
Don't know if there is a BO/IOF ruling.
We had this discussion in Mountain Bike Orienteering a few years ago, and concluded that only the area covered by the map was in bounds. Anything off the map was OOB because it was beyond the organiser/planners responsibility - "here be dragons", as the old maps used to say.

[graeme]

There is.

That's an ISOM symbol which AFAIK isn't in ISSOM, probably because...

it causes problems because it looks very similar to the forbidden area.

I think ISSOM is about to be reviewed, and hopefully they'll sort this out.

[andypat]

I hope they also do something with the symbol for hedge (black/green) which is very difficult to tell from a dark green veg strip.