National O Series 2013

[graeme]

Look, its not rocket science, BOF are going to plug "their" own events
BNC
JK
sprint & middle
BOC
A bit of beating up on UKRL / buying off MrsH as advertised
SinS
Some orienteering
Rannoch
2/6-days
And something in the autumn, probably
September Somethingorother, October Odyssey, November Classic

all two-day weekend, and none of the area champs.

[Mrs H]

buying off MrsH as advertised
SinS

Eh What? SinS is nothing to do with me this time as I'm spending a big bit of early 2013 in NZ
besides I don't come that cheaply

[aiming off]

Thanks, Graeme

But seriously, do people think I should be expected to "sell" a series of events that require you to peak between early Feb and early Nov to intelligent, aspiring elite juniors?

And with FCC broken, what is there?

[graeme]

But seriously, do people think I should be expected to "sell" a series of events that require you to peak between early Feb and early Nov to intelligent, aspiring elite juniors?

Seriously, yes. You should be able to sell fun through the year to intelligent juniors, and as for peaking, you should study what rocky does. What else would you do? - expect them to peak athletically during school/uni exams?

[greywolf]

But seriously, do people think I should be expected to "sell" a series of events that require you to peak between early Feb and early Nov to intelligent, aspiring elite juniors?

If these elite juniors are intelligent & aspiring (and those I know certainly are) then they're also quite capable of reading the fixtures list and identifying the important races. I'm not sure why you think anyone here is expecting you to sell anything - if you really are as central to junior squad development as your first post suggests then as a BOF insider you should have more direct information channels than Nopesport...
And as for peaking...what Graeme said

[The Loofa]

Events in series. Graeme is close
No October odyssey
September weekend is London plus UltraSprint
and the Northerns is in, but not Scottish, Welsh, Midlands or Southerns.
19 races in 9 double-headers plus BOC. 10 to count.

Who's going to be interested?
UK Cup worked best when focussed into main UK competition season
Likewise FCC - slightly earlier but overlapping due to exams.
Masters seem happy to go to everything and anything all year round.
So I expect very little interest from any under-35s, and none at all from under 21s

[awk]

Events in series. Graeme is close
and the Northerns is in, but not Scottish, Welsh, Midlands or Southerns.
19 races in 9 double-headers plus BOC. 10 to count.

Who's going to be interested?....
Masters seem happy to go to everything and anything all year round.
So I expect very little interest from any under-35s, and none at all from under 21s

Yet to see the list other than what is here (have British Orienteering yet emerged from the twehtieth century?), but as one vet, this doesn't look too promising.
The point about the Masters is that we weren't asked to go to everything - the list was based on what should be the premier domestic events of the year: the Britishes, the JK, the area championships, plus a selection of other races to try and give a reasonably even spread in terms of disciplines and geography. It was a longish list, but reasonably focused, with 8 to count (not over half).

A UK league that doesn't include the area championships sounds the opposite. These are level A events, supposedly amongst BOF's main domestic races. So what sort of national competition is BOF trying to promote when it leaves them out for holiday events etc?

[graeme]

I expect very little interest from any under-35s, and none at all from under 21s

I think it would be very appealing to under-35 non-elites, if we had any of them.

The bunch of U21s in my car today would have loved it too, something to add to those events their parents keep dragging them to, except that NoSe doesn't extend to M14 and below.

So I wish you were wrong , but unfortunately, you are right

[Mrs H]

I think it would be very appealing to under-35 non-elites, if we had any of them.

Well perhaps if we'd kept the FCC with its JWOC golden tickets we might have some.

I'm with Aiming Off on this one. I was nagged into going to the 2006 final at Craig Mhic at huge expense because it was the must do event - just qualifying for the final was an achievement. I must admit it was an outstandingly good weekend. The FCC in that format helped to keep the bubbling under non-elites in the mix long enough to get them past that awkward leaving home and going to uni phase with its strong field and guaranteed social scene and the hint that maybe....just maybe....if you had a couple of blinders at the final you might get to JWOC. I don't suppose any rank outsiders ever made it but it was really good to offer the chance and make the series something worth having a go at.

Exactly what was the reason that set up was discontinued?

[Angry Haggis]

Yet to see the list other than what is here

The UKOL list is now published on the BOF site here

[King Penguin]

Thanks AH (and for Saturday).
Now all we need do is wait for Focus to find out how it is supposed to work, rules, number of events to count etc.

[mharky]

Here's a tidied up version of the fixtures for the 2013 UK Orienteering League

1. 09/02 - British Night Champs, Tankersley, SYO, YHOA
2. 10/02 - YHOA Super League, Tankersley, SYO YHOA
3. 16/03 - FVO Middle Race, Rannoch, FVO, SOA
4. 17/03 - Scottish O League 2, Rannoch, FVO, SOA
5. 29/03 - JK Sprint, Reading Uni, SCOA
6. 30/03 - JK Middle, Hambledon, SCOA
7. 31/03 - JK Long, Cold Ash, SCOA
8. 20/04 - British Sprint Champs, Loughborough Uni, LEI, EMOA
9. 21/04 - British Middle Champs, Stanton Moor, DVO, EMOA
10. 26/05 - Springtime in Shrops Urban, Ludlow?, WRE, WMOA
11. 27/05 - Springtime in Shrops, Ludlow?, WRE, WMOA
12. 22/06 - YHOA Super League, Halifax, EPOC, YHOA
13. 23/06 - Northern Champs, Castle Carr, EPOC, YHOA
14. 28/07 - Scottish 6-days, Lossie, SOA
15. 30/07 - Scottish 6-days, Culbin, SOA
16. 21/09 - City of London Race, London, SLOW, SEOA
17. 22/09 - LOK Ultrasprint, London?, LOK, SEOA
18. 02/11 - Southampton Urban, Southampton, SOC, SCOA
19. 03/11 - November Classic, Brockenhurst?, SOC, SCOA

This seems to be heavily modeled on the current Masters Cup, which in 2012 had best 8 scores of 18. No need to ever beat someone in a race, or even run against them in a race, to beat them overall. Brilliant.

An added dimension that the National O Series will have over its predecessors is an additional team based competition, which is most likely to be club based

Well, I'd hate to disappoint BOF, but the FCC had team based competitions for both clubs and university teams.

When I was trawling through BOF minutes I found a statement that there will be no final. And seeing as the fixtures list has no mention of the final, it's safe to say there isn't one.

So as far as I can tell, the UKOL is the masters cup, but they are sticking on the FCC and UK Cup.

[mikey]

Surprised that the Welsh Champs at Newborough isn't on that list. Top notch area and it would widen the national spread of the 'UK' League.

[Kitch]

But seriously, do people think I should be expected to "sell" a series of events that require you to peak between early Feb and early Nov to intelligent, aspiring elite juniors?

Seriously, yes. You should be able to sell fun through the year to intelligent juniors, and as for peaking, you should study what rocky does. What else would you do? - expect them to peak athletically during school/uni exams?

Graeme, AO said intelligent, aspiring elites, which you conveniently omitted. Autumn has no relevance for competition if they are interested in an international cap.

And as for peaking -
running well for 9 months of the year isn't peaking, it can't be.
And I don't get the exams thing at all, the only time exams ever got in my way was Uni Finals - so yes kids can peak in early summer.
Rocky doesn't peak

So AO - you are right the national O series won't help you if you want to teach periodisation and peaking.
It is not something I would want to use to structure my, or any aspiring international's training and racing calender on.

The NOS represents middle aged spread.

[graeme]

There are two ways to parse what AO wrote, so I omitted it.
Maybe he's talking about people aspiring to be "elite juniors". Personally, I think that's a rather low level of instant-gratification ambition which reflects more on the coach than the individual.
Or maybe he's talking about juniors who aspire to be elites. A long term goal like that will be hampered by periodization as a child.
On another thread you support mharky's call for a junior Championship with an April final, so I'm not sure where your "Early summer" comes from.

Rocky doesn't peak

That was the point. Furthermore, (IMO) rocky isn't especially talented compare with some of the other athletes who've passed through Edinburgh, yourself included.
But achievement is a matter of record, and as the man said Training works, kids.