The Demise of Elite Junior Orienteering Competitions

[RS]

Totally agree with the comment of the not-so-elite striving to make the final 15. Been there, done that

[Mrs H]

Final can be entered by anyone (why restrict it to only 15?)

Because it can act as a great incentive if the final is limited in number. Graeme was saying this change would only benefit elites - I disagree. The number of juniors in the UK means that the FCC Final wasn't/isn't just about getting to JWOC - reference to Mharky's note about people finding out whether they've qualified. There was a goal for the not-so-elite juniors - simply to try and get a place at the FCC final. Opening it up to everyone removes that aspect.

[/quote]

Yes that was also the point I tried to make and firmly believe too.

[Dave]

A qualification cut off definitely adds to the spectacle of the final weekend and serves as real motivation for many. I think it used to work so those who hadn't qualified could still run, before the main start block but they just wouldn't have an official result in the series/would not pick up any points in the final. I think this is the best way of doing it, as you're not telling people they definitely can't turn up but you still have to be in it to win it.

[Street]

Whilst cash prizes and JWOC (EYOC?) qualification are fantastic incentives to the top juniors to compete in a cup the future of the sport requires more that just the elite juniors to move into the senior ranks.

This cup should provide an experience for all the juniors to run in so that they are more likely to stay in orienteering. This means obviously that the orienteering should be of a high standard (high quality maps and courses, arena atmosphere, commentary, focus on juniors) but also, maybe more importantly, in terms of the social side of orienteering (social media interest, lots of other juniors, opportunity to socialise).

Altogether these factors probably mean that BOF involvement is required to make the cup really good, but there is no reason why it cannot work initially with the work and enthusiasm of some volunteers and the assistance of some event officials.

[Sunlit Forres]

I've been following this thread with great interest and no small amount of excitment.

I don't feel qualified to comment on the specifics, having only been involved with junior development at a grass-roots level. But having met Mharky a couple of times I can't think of a better Leader to drive this superb initiative. The capital L is deliberate.

Having seen a small number of local juniors make it to squad level, what's clear to me is that there needs to be an incentive and a clear pathway that all aspiring juniors can follow to get on to the big stage (or at least amongst the masses down the front clamouring to get a sniff of it).

In my RDO work here in Moray I'll do all I can to give whatever you guys come up with the backing it deserves. I must have said this before, but like any self-respecting tortoise, you only make progress if you stick your neck out. You'll get us out of the compost heap yet.

[Paul Frost]

Altogether these factors probably mean that BOF involvement is required to make the cup really good, but there is no reason why it cannot work initially with the work and enthusiasm of some volunteers and the assistance of some event officials.

Who is BOF?
It's us, the members. The few paid employees are there to serve us and our needs & wants aren't they?
If a revived FCC is what the members want, and some of them are prepared to put their money where their mouth is, then it should be supported.

[054374]

I think this is a really good idea. I remember going to watch siblings compete in FCC finals and although I was quite young I could sense the excitement and pressure of the event. Each year you have to check to see what the selection criteria is, what races count, where you have to travel etc etc but with an FCC series you know if you go to the races, do well enough and get into the final a JWOC place is within reach (and cash by the looks of things)!!

Really good idea and I hope it works out. Would be awesome if I could experience it as selection.

[FRBlackSheep]

Think the only dangerous thing at last year's brilliant event was daring to question the mighty cock-up at download

Don't worry - there's always an almighty cock-up at download at that event- surprisingly for the same reason two years in a row - please Mr download update your systems to recognise 'new' dibbers....

[awk]

Altogether these factors probably mean that BOF involvement is required to make the cup really good, but there is no reason why it cannot work initially with the work and enthusiasm of some volunteers and the assistance of some event officials.

To be honest, whilst I would once have agreed with this, I am not so sure now, at least if you mean BOF the organisation rather than, as Paul rightly suggests, BOF the members. That is, if you mean involvement in any way beyond providing deep background support.

Pretty much every successful initiative in British orienteering in terms of developing specific areas of the sport has been driven by enthusiastic individuals who believe in what they are doing. As soon as these initiatives have landed in the laps of the committee stucture, they have started to stagnate and fall away. The reason is, I think, that they become subject to committee compromise, subject to views of people who have no real stake in or passion for the initiative, or indeed for the principles behind them (that is not to criticise the people concerned, just to comment on the nature of any committee based organisation). And as for effecting changes or responding swiftly to suggestions for improvement........when we first started the FCC, the competition changed detailed format pretty much every year, as did the Yvette Baker, but the principles were never messed with. Can't say that's happened over the past few years. Personally, I think it's brilliant to see this competition back in the hands of an individual with that belief - it's been long overdue.

[Mrs H]

Yes!

3. Be objective and place personal views aside.

Committees are real passion killers

[awk]

That criteria is exactly why I have no interest. Do we really want the sport to be ruled by a bunch of Mr Spocks? The whole point to having a committee of experts is that they DO bring their personal views to the table, a viewpoint that has been formed through acquiring experience and knowledge.

[awk]

That criteria is exactly why I have no interest. Do we really want the sport to be ruled by a bunch of Mr Spocks? The whole point to having a committee of experts is that they DO bring their personal views to the table, a viewpoint that has been formed through acquiring experience and knowledge.

[Lard]

Awk...

HERE HERE !

[Street]

Awk and Paul. I think you misunderstand me. I believe that to be truly successful then the races must be jwoc selection races. As far as I understand it is somebody in the British orienteering office or committe chair who decides what the selection races are, not the membership of British orienteering. This is why bof must be involved in some capacity. I agree that a lot of work can be done by enthusiastic orienteers.

[mharky]

Exactly.

It's all very well to say that they are in the position of power that we give them, just like the UK Government. And that they should be carrying out the will of their members, just like the UK Government. But BOF (I use that term loosely) have to power to make any junior cup races selection races. That is what the long-term aim is. If they are part of the selection process then they will have far greater significance than winning a bit of cash.