The Demise of Elite Junior Orienteering Competitions

[Mrs H]

YOU NEED TO VOLUNTEER.

Don't imagine I haven't thought about it Duncan, the problem is I cannot square

1. Make informed decisions on a variety of matters using my relevant knowledge and experience of orienteering and of British Orienteering.

with

3. Be objective and place personal views aside.

Surely relevant knowledge and experience result in personal views in an intelligent person, and if you want the first two you have to accept the third. - it just doesn't make sense

[andypat]

Graeme
No reason why you cant nominate one or other of your open sprints as the points race for SOUL is there? Banchory was. Clyde are certainly considering offering sprint distance races as part of our calendar next year in Erskine and possibly another secret location...

[RS]

[quote]Whatever the official guidelines say, as an official I'm much more concerned about traffic at a 12 minute sprint event than at a 40 minute urban. At the few big international sprints that I've experienced vehicular traffic has been stopped in the race terrain. Thus whilst the idea is good, the practicalities may not be for many of the urban areas that we use. Perhaps I'm being over cautious but no elite sprint at the next urban event that I'm planning (it will be a gaffled mass start event though, at night and under the festive lights of a vibrant seaside town. http://www.brightoncityrace.org.uk)
Think the only dangerous thing at last year's brilliant event was daring to question the mighty cock-up at download

[haloite]

I wonder what clubs will be brave enough to have a proper sprint class at their next urban..

We offered something similar at the Yorkshire Urban League race in May. Competitors ran their Urban class and could then do a "bonus" run for a squid of a Town Centre Sprint. On a personal note (and a bit off-topic) I'd love to see a National Sprint Series! We have a National (and thanks to that, many Regional) Urban Leagues (Thank-You NopeSport!) - it works fine without BO putting their oar in - couldn't we do the same for Sprint??

[graeme]

Graeme
No reason why you cant nominate one or other of your open sprints as the points race for SOUL is there?

None at all, but we chose not to because the long courses are also fantastic Also, I strongly believe in kitch's JFDI maxim - when I see the top runners choosing to run the sprint-length courses, I'll (ask you to) change it.

[Oldman]

Personally I think it is pretty rude that people bitch about BOF, and the people who run the committees and the decisions they make, but when it comes to it you don't make the effort to contribute on the committees that actually decide these things, or formally put forward your thoughts to someone on those committees.

Well said! Event volunteers are regularly lauded here (even when they make mistakes) but those who volunteer to work on the committees seem to get nothing but abuse - who else is BOF apart from these dedicated orienteers? That's why I disliked the original title of this thread, (even if some sentiments in it are sensible), and why I won't contribute to it on principle (except to make this point). Nopesport might attract an even larger following if this issue were fixed (or at least adversely commented on by more).

PS Can any contributor change a thread title they've submitted?

[Paul Frost]

I'd be happy to provide an FCC website and hosting if that helps.

[mharky]

That is a great help.

And to other people who has also offered help in any way, I shall be in contact.

Thank you all for the support

[Jayne]

Sitting here with my London all controls map on my desk I'm kind of intrigued by the iof sprint race format. I'm not sure I would have got the go ahead at London for this (I think traffic might have been an issue with the current/start finish and given the clash with the SHIs not sure how many would have run it) but I'd have quite happily had a go planning one.

Can someone (Mharky?) tell me or link me to the remit of an iof sprint (number of controls/distance) - think someone said that it should look like a classic from a distance?? and I might have a play around next week and see what I might have done.

Jayne

[redpossum]

You could always try the IOF web site:
http://orienteering.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/IOF-Foot-Orienteering-Rules-2011.pdf

[Peter H]

I'm with Duncan that it would be better to do this with the BO competitions committee if we can. The fact that you are reading this now means you are passionate about the sport, which is great (so am I), but try not to get into an "us and them" mentality. Some of the BO employees might frustrate you, but remember they are just doing a job, it's not their passion. Others are just as enthusiastic as we are, (we see them at all the major races), as are all the volunteers on the various committees. Verbal bashing does not motivate people. Leading by example does.

Anyway, it looks like this will happen one way or another. It seems Scott Collier is the temporary chair of the events and competitions committee, so over to you Scott?

Regarding the scoring format, the qualification races should be counted in the overall title (combined finals result + 4 best qualifiers from 7 to score), but I think it is important that the final is open to all, even if they haven't got enough qualifying races (what if they were injured, ill, or just unable to get to the qualification races?). We should be inclusive not exclusive with the finals. The qualifiers could also determine start order in the final?

This would mean that someone could still win the FCC final as a separate race (and with Duncan's support it seems likely that JWOC selection could result).

Kitch and Lard have kicked off the prize money with £100 each, and I will match that. Anyone else? £500+ is easily achiveable.
However, certificates are for 8-10 year olds. Even medals and buffs (not another!) are not cool for 18-20 year olds. Cash is king - at least you can do something useful with that.

And the real benefit would be that this sort of high pressured racing on quality courses and terrain may help our juniors to cope with what JWOC (and for some future WOCs) has in store. We have good orienteers, both junior and senior in this country, but emotion on the big occasion when it really matters can affect all of us. It's not easy - can you guarantee a perfect run when the pressure is on? That's the difference between winning and being an also ran.

[Big Jon]

Kitch and Lard have kicked off the prize money with £100 each, and I will match that. Anyone else? £500+ is easily achiveable.

Deeside Orienteering & Leisure Maps have offered £400 for sponsorship - to be used in any way.

[andypat]

Graeme
No reason why you cant nominate one or other of your open sprints as the points race for SOUL is there?

None at all, but we chose not to because the long courses are also fantastic Also, I strongly believe in kitch's JFDI maxim - when I see the top runners choosing to run the sprint-length courses, I'll (ask you to) change it.

I'm pretty sure I had a discussion with Rocky along the lines of why not put on two sprint length races instead of a long urban. Hopefully he'll be in Livvy that weekend to show you what elites want, what they really really want...

[awk]

But I think getting the FCC Final to be a selection race is v. important. I don't recall the precise details, but I think in 2010 there were big issues when the selectors decided not to use the proposed FCC Final as a selection race.

I'm sure this is true, but the FCC did run for several years very successfully without being a selection race. We did get the best turning out though, and I think that was the real key. Sponsorship helped big time.

Personally I think it is pretty rude that people bitch about BOF, and the people who run the committees and the decisions they make, but when it comes to it you don't make the effort to contribute on the committees that actually decide these things

quite a few of those here have served on a variety of BOF committees over a number of years. After some 20-25 years of committee work, I have to say that the things I feel have made most difference were largely effected outside or sometimes in spite of the BOF committee structure.

[distracted]

Well said Mharky. I really hope this gets off the ground. Many who've been involved with junior development over many years have said changes over several years (including removing the JWOC incentive) have killed the FCC.

And secondly without courses available for adults, there will be a reluctance for parents to provide transport.

I know this was said in relation to BUCS, but having a standalone junior event, as I understand was the original setup for the FCC final, forces the focus onto the juniors. And I'm sure the juniors would enjoy a weekend like the one Ben describes at Formby, rather than being dragged off to the solitude of a B&B for the evening by their parents... The social side of orienteering is probably the most neglected aspect of the sport.

After all, the FCC Final is the juniors' weekend. Junior-only event works fine for JIRCs, Peter Palmers etc. I don't buy the 'parents need a run otherwise they won't bother. If the kids are keen, the parents should want to see them do well and help them out, irrespective of whether they get a run.

Final can be entered by anyone (why restrict it to only 15?)

Because it can act as a great incentive if the final is limited in number. Graeme was saying this change would only benefit elites - I disagree. The number of juniors in the UK means that the FCC Final wasn't/isn't just about getting to JWOC - reference to Mharky's note about people finding out whether they've qualified. There was a goal for the not-so-elite juniors - simply to try and get a place at the FCC final. Opening it up to everyone removes that aspect.

Certainly agree with cash prizes at this and the UK Cup - been in favour of this for a while. If there's nothing worthwhile on offer, why are people surprised when no-one turns up?