Whats the right course for adult novice runners?

[andypat]

Thinking ahead to WOC 2015, and the possibility that we have a surge of interest in orienteering (assuming the publicity machine does its job) what do people feel is the route into orienteering for adult novices?

There's a bit of a tradition that orange courses will satisfy the needs of anyone new to orientering, but is this really true?

Do runners really want to switch from road running to stumbling round muddy streams, fences and overgrown rides?

And for that matter can you even depend on orange courses to be consistent?

A quick look through some recent stats for orange courses up here:-

SOL 3 Battan Winner – 23min. Number under 60 min (16/22) DNF 1
SoSOL6 Devilla Winner – 39 min. Number under 60 min (1/11) DNF 5
SoSOL 5 Riccarton Winner – 22min. Number under 60 min (12/12) DNF 0
SOL 2 Dalbeattie Winner – 40min. Number under 60min (3/14) DNF 3
Maroc district Balnagowan Winner - 26min. Under 60min (12/12) DNF 0

The signficant variation in winners times, number finishing under an hour and DNFs suggests we arent getting TD3 courses right.

I suspect the ideal intro course for adult novices who run is probably a very long yellow (why not call it the runners course?)

And maybe a long yellow for adult novices who dont run, unless orange courses can be made more user friendly.

[AndyC]

I'm putting an English head above the parapet and pointing out that all the courses you've listed were North of the border.
Terrain there can be more difficult to plan for TD3 but before I suggest that we always get in right South of the border, I've orientered in both the Midlands and the North and have often been of the opinion that the TD4 course I've just run was really TD3 and vice versa (recovering from injury or not wanting a long run with no short TD5 option).
I've been talking to a novice planner to help her plan her first event recently and she has run one (official) TD3 course since starting the sport and has never run TD1 or TD2 and is scared that she will get those courses wrong. Fortunately I walked round some while ill earlier in the year so I do have an impression of what I think they should look like.

[Oldman]

Answer to your question in my opinion is orange for average newcomers, yellow for more timid ones, but light green or even green or blue (with suitable warnings) for more adventurous types such as males 18-45. Do they want to find it straightforward with no real risk of getting "lost" (very worrying concept to some), or do they want to try a tougher course to get a real feel for what it can be like? Registration people should deal with different people in different ways.

[andypat]

Thanks.
The examples are Scottish because I was researching for SOA reasons!
Take your point about English terrain being different. Todays Blue course at a Stately Home near Edinburgh was broadly TD3/4 - guess you guys have a lot more of that down there. I like getting a fast run now and then.

I think the point I was making was if you are a runner, you probably want to experience running/navigation rather than stumbling/tripping through boggy stuff. I dont think we cater for runner who want to run and navigate with our current colour coded range. There are no easy TD longer races (are there?)

[dustytoo]

We have had a discussion recently that kind of relates to this. One route from pure road running to the mud, blood, and swearing of real orienteering is a mix of urban and park races. Introduces them to the basic concept of needing to navigate and think, but in a context that is reasonably familiar. We are looking at something along these lines for next year.

[Oldman]

I think Andypat meant novices rather than runners who are orienteering novices, but perhaps he can clarify?

[Sunlit Forres]

Far better in my opinion to get to know your local running clubs and help them plan a course with simple controls but a bit of route choice at a club training night.

Runners go to running clubs because they want to run, not stand around scratching heads, so give everyone a map and SI Card but go round in groups. Say that anyone who starts to 'get it' is free to head off on their own, but otherwise don't expect everyone to want to.

By having an enjoyable, social 1st taste of orienteering, anyone whose curiosity is aroused is more likely to come to a proper event, especially if you have it on a date soon afterwards that doesn't clash with a local road or XC race and in a nice area. Don't pretend they won't find it harder at a club event - we shouldn't be watering down events aimed at orienteers to try to recruit people who are unlikely to want to progress at the 'real thing'.

I ran a session for Jog Scotland in Elgin last week in the pouring rain for 23 women and 4 men. With a bit of instruction, the jog leaders helped place and collect the controls and ran the e-timing themselves using OE2003 just like old-hands. Everyone really enjoyed it (especially me). We had 3 female 'unknowns' at Roseisle 2 days later and I got given a really nice bottle of wine, a box of chox, a thank-you card and a free (indoor) barbecue. Shame nobody from our club took up the invite to join us - it's often as hard to get orienteers to go running as it is runners to go orienteering.

Next time (and I'm told there WILL be a next time) they'll be planning the course and printing the maps themselves. Sounds like my kind of club night.

[SeanC]

If an adult newcomers course is required at a classic O event, why isn't a score option offered more often? Is this just tradition? Score courses with a mix of TD2-4 standard controls are greatfor the unpredictible mix of physical and technical aptitude that is adult newcomers IMHO, and not much extra work. It would also have the bonus of keeping orange and yellow for juniors to avoid the "I had to run the kids course" problem for adults with egos.

I agree though that the most success for complete newcomers is likely to be a targetted event rather than bolting something on to classic colour coded events, though Long Yellow + classic O might work if the publicity and area were right I'm sure.

[andypat]

Far better in my opinion to get to know your local running clubs and help them plan a course with simple controls but a bit of route choice at a club training night.

A good idea!

Runners go to running clubs because they want to run, not stand around scratching heads

Agree with this entirely.

Don't pretend they won't find it harder at a club event - we shouldn't be watering down events aimed at orienteers to try to recruit people who are unlikely to want to progress at the 'real thing'.

Harder = impossible. Think maps - no legend, white = woods!, WTF are all the heiroglyphics on the control description!
Not watering down events aimed at orienteers - the suggestion is putting on events not aimed specifically at experienced orienteers - surely some orienteers would come along to get the run in?

Shame nobody from our club took up the invite to join us - it's often as hard to get orienteers to go running as it is runners to go orienteering.

Would they have come if it was an event?

Next time (and I'm told there WILL be a next time) they'll be planning the course and printing the maps themselves. Sounds like my kind of club night.

Club night - or novice orienteering race?

[Sunlit Forres]

Not watering down events aimed at orienteers - the suggestion is putting on events not aimed specifically at experienced orienteers - surely some orienteers would come along to get the run in?

Hi Andy.You mean like this? ..... http://www.moravianorienteering.org/content/saturday-league-rules ... which reminds me we must get this page updated to reflect the tweaks we've made after a couple of years of running it.

[roadrunner]

WTF are all the heiroglyphics on the control description!

When I started orienteering, colour-coded events (as they were then called) generally had written control descriptions, you only got the symbolic ones at "badge" events (and then not always, if I remember correctly). While nowadays I prefer the symbols, perhaps we should re-think what's provided for Level C and D events - written descriptions for ALL (not just junior) courses shouldn't be too hard to offer, these days they could be printed on demand for those that want them.

[andy]

Pictorial descriptions are fine for beginners on one condition: their courses stick to the descriptions that match the map symbols so they have something to relate it to. The side of etc are pretty obvious.

I think anyone who is going to get anything back out of the sport (i.e. someone who will be competent enough to get round a TD5 course successfully in the future) should be able to get round an orange fairly easily on their first go using a mix of basic map interpretation and some common sense.

[AndyC]

We had someone at our little event yesterday who was doing LG for the first time (she'd done Orange before) and was foxed by symbol CD's - unfortunately no-one realised she hadn't seen them before. She therefore gave up part way round (she also had an issue with understanding part of the map). However I gave her, as she phrased a "crash course in symbols", and have persuaded her to come to our Club Night with the promise of a more extensive session ( I must tell the coach) so a win from a possible loss

[andypat]

Not watering down events aimed at orienteers - the suggestion is putting on events not aimed specifically at experienced orienteers - surely some orienteers would come along to get the run in?

Hi Andy.You mean like this? ..... http://www.moravianorienteering.org/content/saturday-league-rules

Yes... and then again no. And thats not to criticise what youve got there which clearly works for you! (There's a lot of positives in the info on that page for people like me in terms of the clearly stated aims, TD (important) and rules etc)

However if you look at that page through the eyes of a complete novice who's heard of orienteering only through some of the excellent publicity you've been getting but doesnt know someone already in the club (and this is where I think its useful to get some marketing advice from outside of O) does that page welcome, or intimidate?

Here's my honest (through the eyes of my unnamed novice adult) opinion:

It is open to registered members of Moravian Orienteering Club only.

Ah well - not for the likes of me then...

Seniors and experienced juniors will compete on a Sprint O ‘style’

OK so I'm lumped in with these guys - er whats sprint O? I'm a 5k/10k runner. (Marketing guru says - this means I have to click off the page to find info on sprint o before continuing - risk is I dont come back)

technical difficulty no greater than 4.

Oh Oh - I'm starting to get put off by the jargon... (another click off the page)

Juniors will compete on a Yellow ‘style’ course normally 2-3km in length and with a technical difficulty of 2/3 (Senior absolute beginners are welcome to compete on this course but will not score in the league).

Ah - so I'm really supposed to be on this course - but my result wont count. And actually I want to run 5-10k not 2-3 k! (Yellow = more jargon I'll have to click off again to find out what that means)

I could go on, but in fact I think the other two pages of "rules" probably arent worth reading as it doesnt sound like I'm going to get much out of this orienteering lark anyhow...

I hope I've managed to make the point without being too critical of your system SF. The point being that Orienteering is such a complex sport, are we adopting the right approach to make it easier for new people to the sport to come in at a suitable level for them? Event organisers spend all their time getting details right for orienteers, rarely do you see information directed specifially at complete newcomers.

[andypat]

Pictorial descriptions are fine for beginners on one condition: their courses stick to the descriptions that match the map symbols so they have something to relate it to. The side of etc are pretty obvious.

Gonna disagree with Andy on this one - pictorial descriptions seem obvious to us but we've had years of experience. To a complete novice they are absolute gibberish. The columns dont have headings, and the pictures dont really make that much sense at all when it comes down to it. PLus it doesnt really matter if symbol on the map mathches the symbol on the control description if (as is commonly the case) the map has no legend.

I think anyone who is going to get anything back out of the sport (i.e. someone who will be competent enough to get round a TD5 course successfully in the future) should be able to get round an orange fairly easily on their first go using a mix of basic map interpretation and some common sense.

Andy - take a step back and think what you are saying here. So once we've done away with white and yellow... (or were you forgetting about kids) you are really saying if you cant do orange fairly easily (say in under an hour) you probably should just give up. And how do you basically interpret the map if you dont have a legend on it - or its covered by the control descriptions. White = wood? But so is green?! Orange = grass? Doesnt sound like common sense to me...