Mixed sprint relays

[greywolf]

p.s. "mixed sprint relay" may still make it into the WOC programme - the format is certainly among some of the proposals going to the IOF General Assembly next month.

Yes, IOF delegates looking at WOC 2015 sites mentioned this

The proposals can be read here http://orienteering.org/about-the-iof/c ... anne-2012/

And the brief version of the IOF Council's view can be seen here http://orienteering.org/council-discuss ... -assembly/

Bizarrely (or perhaps not...) as far as I can see the IOF Council have ignored the specific details of the Italian (add a two-person, 6 lap sprint relay) and Swiss proposals (add a chasing start middle but not a mixed sprint relay) and used this as an opportunity to resurrect the team sprint relay proposal which has been knocked back before....

[Big Jon]

IOF are fantasising again - in their desperate attempts to try to find the format of O that will have TV companies and the Olympics falling over themselves to throw money at orienteering. They should stop the ceaseless tinkering with the WOC format and listen to the competitors and the organisers.

[NeilC]

They should stop the ceaseless tinkering with the WOC format and listen to the competitors and the organisers.

What are the competitors from the smaller/emerging IOF nations saying ? Are they also against a format that could provide their best opportunity for competing on the world stage and raising the profile of the sport in their countries.

[Kitch]

could provide .

And to answer your question; I don't know, what are they saying ?

[greywolf]

What are the competitors from the smaller/emerging IOF nations saying ? Are they also against a format that could provide their best opportunity for competing on the world stage and raising the profile of the sport in their countries.

Doesn't really matter what they're saying: IOF is ignoring the substance of the proposals put forward by Italy, Switzerland & the Nordic countries (i.e Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden) so it's difficult to imagine they give a sh*t about what the rest of the world thinks.

Not sure why anyone would think a mixed sprint relay would be a great opportunity for a weaker nation? It's arguable that the individual sprint provides the best chance for a one-off random result (didn't a chinese girl finish 10th at woc a few years ago?), but in reality most years it's completely dominated by the usual suspects (Sweden and Switzerland at the moment). The odds against nations outside the top 8 - 10 putting out a competitive mixed sprint relay would be huge.

[NeilC]

IOF have a brief to develop orienteering in many different nations. Big Jon implies that international competitors don't want a mixed sprint relay. This may well be true of the major nations but is it also true for the smaller nations? I don't know, perhaps someone who does could let us know.

[Big Jon]

Mixed relays are by their very format unfair - if a woman has a longer leg their team is penalised. This took a lot of explaining to some IOF guys after the first World Games - their answer was just "but every team runs the same course so it must be fair". I despair of IOF and their dream to find a new format every year or two - why not concentrate on what we do and make sure it is done to the best possible standard rather than messing about with new random formats?

[pete.owens]

Only if you assume that men and women would be running the same courses.
Of course it would be possible to plan an unfair mixed sprint relay - that doesn't mean that the concept is inherently unfair.

[andypat]

I've yet to hear a convincing argument why it has to be 1 woman and 2 men (which I think is inherent to the whole point of the thing). There's an inherent unfairness there already towards the 2nd best female athlete.

[kofols]

Not sure why anyone would think a mixed sprint relay would be a great opportunity for a weaker nation?

IOF run by people from same national federations which majority of national official representatives are against the mixed relay (at least NORD, SUI, ITA). Majority of big federations already expressed their views about Mixed sprint relays and most of them are against it so they will (should) probably vote accordance with their official opinion.

In this tactical game of bureaucratic decision-making process small federations would just like to know opinion of IOF representatives (colletive opinion is not very credible) or opinions of other federations which are for the proposal so representatives from small federations can understand the fair play rules and are able to make their own decision for or against it based on facts.

It is very strange that one federation is against the proposal but in same time is willing to support his/her representative for IOF Council who is for the proposal. Do we have (want to have) clear vision and leadership or not?

In this context would be very good to know also opinion of GBR and Brian P. and Helge S. who are running for the position of President of IOF.

[NeilC]

I've yet to hear a convincing argument why it has to be 1 woman and 2 men (which I think is inherent to the whole point of the thing). There's an inherent unfairness there already towards the 2nd best female athlete.

Where did you get that from? I believe that the original proposal was for 2+2 (which gives plenty of opportunity for planning varied but gender specific gaffles) - but then with counter-proposals for 1+1 with competitors running mutiple laps. I've not seen detailed enough proposals to confirm/reject Big Jon's suggestion that the format is inherently unfair.
http://orienteering.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/WOC-in-the-Future-proposal-from-the-IOF-Council1.pdf

[Spookster]

I've yet to hear a convincing argument why it has to be 1 woman and 2 men (which I think is inherent to the whole point of the thing). There's an inherent unfairness there already towards the 2nd best female athlete.

No, as far as I know the WOC proposals for mixed sprint have all had an equal number of men and women (1 and 1, or 2 and 2).

If I was organising a mixed sprint relay in the UK (which perhaps I am) I'd make it 2 men and 1 woman simply because that is the ratio of orienteers in Britain, so it reduces the chance of a club not having enough men/women to make teams.

Edit: NeilC beat me to it.

[Spookster]

In this context would be very good to know also opinion of GBR and Brian P. and Helge S. who are running for the position of President of IOF.

The last GBR submission by British Orienteering to IOF is here. That pre-dates the latest set of proposals from IOF and other nations, upon which we are consulting now.

[greywolf]

my understanding is that the IOF proposal is indeed 2 + 2, probably run M-W-M-W and that there wouldn't be gender-specific gaffles - all four runners would have a similar length course (so this might mean Men's winning time 12 mins, Women's 15).
That gives more options for the planner, but is also potentially unfair if the various gaffles aren't evenly balanced

[andypat]

SOrry 2+2 appears correct - I gues I misunderstood or was misinformed somewhere along the line