WOC 2015 and Moray 13

[EddieH]

I read in Score about the revised plans for these events.

I remember querying how on earth permission was going to be got for any Speyside forest (having not long ago ended up planning the Scottish relays on about hte 10th choice area and that not in Speyside). I was assured that there would be no problem which seemed to me to mean that conservation bodies could be bribed. In many ways I am relived that it appears they cannot, but the initial confidence seems odd to say the least.

So we are ending up with repeating past WOCs. Why was Deeside not considered? Surely it has perfect terrain for WOC.

Now Moray 2013 has had to find a new area, but why a fourth sand dune area and a poor one at that. One of the 6 days biggest attractions is the variety of terrin usually on offer. I appreciate that each of the 4 dune areas has a different character, but Carse is hardly a quality technical area and is also very rough. Not so much further the little used Creag Leach (Higland 99 day 2) would provide much better contrast and thoroughly enjoyable orienteering. Maybe permission wasn't forthcoming, maybe it wasn't considered.

I'd like to know a bit more about how all this came about. The implication in Score that environmental restrictions have increased I find hard to accept based on my Scottish relay area experience.

[plain lazy]

I agree that Carse is not a great choice from a technical orienteering perspective, I can only imagine that it was considered due to (a) it's reasonable proximity to the event centre, and (b) the opportunity for nice, flat parking fields on the edge of the area for the thousands of folk that will come.
Creag Leach would have been a great choice from a technical perspective, and a personal one.

[EddieH]

... and has a nice big flat parking field, and is not really very much further.

PLEASE rethink this.

[Freefall]

I would be happy to discuss on a one-to-one basis at this weekend's event reasons why various choices were made for both Moray 2013 and WOC2015. You can probably appreciate that a lot of thought and effort has gone into every decision by quite a few different individuals.

[Becks]

I am so mad at these stinking birds. Can somehow who actually knows anything about ecology tell me why a preservation program that is apparently so successful that these birds now inhabit all our best forests in Speyside, and have done so despite the fact that we have orienteered in them continuously over the last few years, still result in new embargoes of forests? Surely they a) don't mind us being there and b) are now found in large enough numbers that this cossetting is a bit OTT?

Or is this more that it's easiest to form a silly blanket OTT rule that's in place over a huge amount of the year and enforce it than look at individual cases and judge carefully the impact of the activity?

Boo hiss. I'm sure both WOC and the Scottish are still going to be fantastic, but it sounds like a real nightmare for the organisers and yes, a shame that areas will now be revisited.

Also - does this mean problems for the Junior training camp (is it Badaguish this year?) Or are small training activities still okay?

[andy]

I haven't been involved in this issue so can't really comment on the main questions, but...

I am so mad at these stinking birds.

about sums it up.

does this mean problems for the Junior training camp (is it Badaguish this year?) Or are small training activities still okay?

There are areas of each map which can't be used, big enough to impact on a major event but I'm sure with no real parking/arena requirements people training shouldn't have an issue.

[rocky]

I am so mad at these stinking birds. Can somehow who actually knows anything about ecology tell me why a preservation program that is apparently so successful that these birds now inhabit all our best forests in Speyside, and have done so despite the fact that we have orienteered in them continuously over the last few years, still result in new embargoes of forests? Surely they a) don't mind us being there and b) are now found in large enough numbers that this cossetting is a bit OTT?

I don't know much about ecology either but I was of the impression that the ban was more for the protection of the orienteers than the birds, a disturbed Capercaillie can get pretty ferocious! (mind you there were rumours of bears in the EOC woods weren't there?)

[DeerTick]

I don't know much about ecology either but I was of the impression that the ban was more for the protection of the orienteers than the birds, a disturbed Capercaillie can get pretty ferocious!

Surely not as ferocious as an orienteer denied his "right" to travel against a one way system on a single track road?

AP

[Becks]

I don't know much about ecology either but I was of the impression that the ban was more for the protection of the orienteers than the birds, a disturbed Capercaillie can get pretty ferocious! (mind you there were rumours of bears in the EOC woods weren't there?)

Is that really true? Seems bizarre. I disturbed one once and it made an almighty racket, but definitely in the opposite direction to the one I was travelling.

There are definitely bears here, and rattlesnakes etc too. Seems the ticks get more people than anything "dangerous" though.

[awk]

Is that really true? Seems bizarre. I disturbed one once and it made an almighty racket, but definitely in the opposite direction to the one I was travelling.

I was told by the mapper that there was a triangle of forest in Achray surrounded by forest roads that was not surveyed for one edition owing to the capercaillie that decided that it was his territory and nobody else's, bird, human or otherwise!

[EddieH]

As an aviofile (is that a word?) I concur that it is an overreaction but it has become a legal matter. Ironically until the day before capercaillie's status was changed they were a game bird and could therefore be shot.

They became extinct in Britain many centuries ago and are a reintroduced species on the very edge of their viable habitat - they are common in Scandinavia and other parts. After reasonable success the deterioration of spring weather has hit them very hard and they were deemed to fall below 100 individuals causing the conservation reaction.

Of all their problems disturbance is not particularly high on the list and in my view does not warrant the draconian response, although as an orienteer I guess I am biased.

There are some birds, notably hen harrier, that struggle to survive against massive pressure from us humans and really would not survive an orienteering event. I entirely concur with avoiding a nest area of theirs, but buzzards in Cannock!!!!!

[johnhrobinson]

Ask Speaky about irate capercaillies

[andypat]

Eddie's right although i think the critical number was below 1000, rather than 100. Capercaillie are an iconic species for Scotland and have a lot of support. I dont think there's much mileage in Orienteering going up against public opinion on this one.

I believe its actually an offence to disturb a lek (where the birds display in April/May) and these are pretty static so RSPB etc can be fairly clear on where to avoid. From May onwards to about Sept the nesting birds and chicks are fairly vulrenable hence the ongoping problems during that period. During the winter the adult birds are pretty good at keeping out of site. They generally hear us coming and either fly off while you are still 100s of metres away or sit tight until you are on top of them - erupting with heart attack inducing ferocity into the air from under your feet!

Occasionally you get a rouge male which displays aggressively on an unusual site (like a road) and attacks anything in its path - there was one at Inschriach not so long ago. These guys usually seem to come to a sticky end at the hands of dogs or cars - Darwinism in action...

[Freefall]

Occasionally you get a rouge male

They getso angry they turn red in the face.

You may see from the SOA website that I have removed the capercaillie agreement as I felt it was being used by some landowners to justify blanket bans on access. I have raised concerns with the RSPB/capercaillie officer as there are now different dates and standards being applied to dogs on lead/orienteers (we are more of a new nuisance than dogs off lead though the capercaillie killed by a dog at Rothiemurchus recently probably begs to differ). There were at least two issues about using Strathspey (as it should properly be called rather than Spey Valley or Speyside):
1.Political considerations about restrictions around Loch Vaa being applied to local residents but the orienteers not being subject to the same constraints
2. The best terrain for capercaillie is the same as the best terrain for orienteers. Unfortunately the success of birds in Inshriach is most notable in the very best part of the forest we wanted to use. We could have used other bits of Inshriach, but the quality of the competition would have been severely compromised.

I actually think the 2015 areas are better - and depending on what decisions are made in just under two weeks time we may have a fantastic new area to add to what are excellent venues. The "athletes village" in Inverness is also coming along nicely and the diggers are hard at work.

[graeme]

The next big question is whether WOC will decide to have 5000 spectators or 500 (i.e. accept minor rule compromises from sharing assembly with 6-day).