Squeezed middle?

[Homer]

Looking at the start list for the Northern Champs on Saturday got me thinking...

I think it would be a good idea to raise the threshold for junior entry fees from 21 to 40.

It is noticable that numbers on the younger age classes are particularly disappointing. There are good reasons why junior entries are down (exams) but I'm talking about M/W21 to M/W40. I know this is nothing new, but I think it is even more noticable here, possibly partly due to the very high entry fees. No criticism of MDOC here, I know there are good reasons for the high fees; multiple (greedy?) landowners.

My theory is that people in the 21 to 45 range are those who are particularly stretched financially: student overdrafts, mortgages, child care, rising fuel costs, etc etc. The over 50's probably have more disposable income on the whole and numbers for Saturday certainly bear this out. I certainly had to swallow hard before paying nearly £80 to enter the family (for both days) and suspect that many parents with young children simply decided, if there was one event to miss, this was it.

Obviously, if junior entry fees were extended to 40, there would have to be a rise in the price of senior entries. However, I think this would be a price worth paying to help protect the future of the sport. It probably wouldn't make as much difference as you first might expect because numbers are already so small in the 21 and 35 classes and many of these already pay student rates. Also, if successful, numbers should rise thereby generating more income.

And while we're at it, is it time to combine M/W21 and M/W35?

[Mrs H]

The over 50's probably have more disposable income

I've got bad news Homer - wait till Bart and Lisa go to university
I had a look at the flyer as a result of your post and was surprised to see that my class W55 (and W60) was running short green instead of green as per BOF guidelines - I wonder why? with such high fees I think i'd want to feel I was getting better value for money Are any of the other classes not running their usual course?

[andy]

Lowering fees wont't make a shred of difference to the 21-45 range. If these muddy obstacle runs can get hundreds showing up and paying £50 for the privilege it is definitely not a money thing.

[SeanC]

Homer's theory is a relatively easy theory to test?

Are the percentages of M/W21-40's significantly less than local/cheap orienteering events in Northern England? If so the people in this age group who go local but aren't going to the northern champs just have to be asked why not.

Entry fees might be a factor or the main factor, but equally it could be:

- City based younger adults are more likely to not have a car. Is this event feisable without a car?
- Is this a good event for those with young families or those who want to socialise before, after or at the event?
- Is the marketing appealing to younger people, or to less experienced orienteers who haven't been to lots of these sorts of events before? Is the marketing reaching orienteers in this age group?

(I haven't looked at the details so I don't know the answer to all of these).

[Jayne]

Not sure, could be an effect - but not really the entry fees on their own. After getting there the difference of a few quid in the entry fees is pretty negligible. Having changed my course due to injury I'm now the only person on W21S, which is a bit of a shame.

[andypat]

I always thought that a part of this might be the cut off point where teachers stopped taking part in extra curricular activies. I'm 44 and at the school I went to a lot of teacher support for sports outside of school hours disappeared in the year or two after I left.
Round about 1985. Any teachers out there confirm if this happened more widely? Certainly at my school the opportunities for orienteering after i left were non-existent. My parents didnt orienteer - I was introduced to it by a teacher who drove a minibus to local events at the weekends. Without that I'd have stuck to running and football I reckon.

[Eric]

Just to back up what Andy and Jayne are saying lowering entry fees won't make any difference.

[Scott]

Agreed - I think that, for those in their twenties, it is the travelling (both cost and practicalities) that is often the barrier to taking part in these larger events, rather than the entry fee.

[tomtom]

I think clubs could do more to arrange group transport/offer spare car seats.
In MDOC we are lucky enough to have our own minibus which travels to most events. This allows single party members and students to get transport. This also means the logistics are organised for them.
Clubs could even hire minibuses if there was demand.

[madmike]

Tomtom,
a good point methinks. Over here some of the smaller "clubs" are actually orienteering sections of polisportive (multisport clubs), which brings affordable access to minibuses even for "clubs" the size of Middxo. The Presidente enters everyone and all the logistics are done for them thereby encouraging participation. Turn up for the minibus and pay your entry fee to Il Presidente -simples!

Mind you when the Club organises an event you automatically get assigned a job and have to email the Presidente if you are not intending to enter the event.

[Clive Coles]

I think many are missing the point ~ it's not JUST the entry fees that put families and students off. It's the cost of the complete package ( fuel and accommodation being just as significant a factor). Just shaving £2 off an entry fee for any sub-set of individuals is not going to make that much difference to the decision as to whether or not many orienteers will travel.

I fear we are being unrealistic in our expectations . Orienteering has to be fitted around other commitments. Fewer folk are prepared to travel on a regular basis.

I dare say the National O league will be championed by some. I just wonder if it will last more than a couple of seasons before numbers dwindle.

[SeanC]

Looked at the details now, looks like a great event.

Google tells me that there are 23 million people within 3 hours drive of Bowness, and it has 15.8 million visitors a year, so it's not an unreasonable ambition to get a couple of hundred people in this age group to a big event in the Lake District.

The minibus option sounds interesting, but perhaps only for big clubs based around big cities - AIRE, NOC, LEI, ESOC etc? Would any car owning over 40's be willing to give up the flexibility/comfort of their own transport for the reduced cost/banter/bad smells/bad music of a minibus?

I think hire looks a bit too expensive though.

[tomtom]

Not expensive if it's the only option for keeping people in the sport. One of the main reasons people drop out after school/university is suddenly there is no organised transport to o events and people can't be bothered with the hastle/cost of sorting it for themselves.

[graeme]

One of these is an athletic competion, the other costs three times as much ...
http://www.mdoc.org.uk/tp2012/tp2012flyer.htm
http://toughmudder.co.uk/files/2011/09/UKposter.pdf

They have different promotion strategies, and so they get different demographics.

There is (to me) an interesting parallel with University entry grades. Once long ago I had to do recruitment for Edinburgh Physics. You needed three C's, we couldn't get enough people, and "best practice" was you had to cut grades still further. I argued that Cs for entry basically sent a message the the course would be a bit crap. Eventually, we raised entry requirement, up to As. And now we select rather than recruit.
But "best practice" still means someone's untested prejudice with no evidence to back it up...

Would any car owning over 40's be willing to give up the flexibility/comfort of their own transport for the ... bad smells/bad music of a minibus?

I actually hitched from the last two Lake events I went to, but I'm not convinced these young folk have a monopoly on bad smells/bad music...

[roadrunner]

When I did a multi-day event in Portugal some years ago now, I recall that the club there had its own full-size bus and driver (which they used to ferry the competitors one day when the location was changed at the last minute); presumably they normally used it to transport club members to events.

When you're comparing orienteering events and their costs against "muddy obstacle runs" and the like, I think there are two things to bear in mind: firstly, at the latter everyone will normally start together, so they're much more conducive to sharing transport, and secondly, they're aimed at adults rather than families, hence one or two entry fees as opposed to four. Also, I don't think most people expect to enter one every week, though I'm sure there are exceptions.