BOC

[frog]

I suspect alot of us will have different reasons. I started in New Zealand because it was well advertised in the local papers there and was a good sport if you enjoyed running and navigation but weren't much good at running. Trailing round at the back of a road or fell race is less interesting. In orienteering there's always the possibility that when I get to the end I find everyone else has fallen in a ditch and I've done well!
I suspect the number of alternative hobbies for teenagers today is part of the problem. My 15 year old son could be quite good at orienteering if he trained, but he prefers kayaking and hockey and snowboarding and playing on his widgets etc.

[frog]

re the cost of relays maybe the BOC or JK treasurer could comment on this. From organising the JK relay I know that Sportident produced spreadsheets for us that I presume we paid them for. We had to hire a hall and provide food and (nonalcoholic!) drinks for the multitude of helpers needed to sort, label and seal the maps, we needed 3 different colours of bibs, loads of different maps, lots of trips to the area by the various people involved (especially planner and controller) to plan and tag the numerous courses and controls. We didn't have to pay for parking but paid someone to be on standby to pull cars and campervans out of a muddy field if need be.
Large events are expensive to provide.
The JK overall still made a good profit (but BOF wanted it to as it relies on JK profit for it's running costs, I presume BOC is similar.)
I think relay costs are expensive, especially when juniors are often running in teams with adults which means you have to pay full price for them and students don't get a reduction. Not sure how much we could reduce relay costs.
Any treasurers able to comment on profit per large relay event compared with profit for a large individual day event?

[SeanC]

ParkRun have an interesting graph of their demographics:

http://www.parkrun.com/results/demographics

I suspect that's a pretty good approximation of who might be interested in orienteering (with perhaps more younger juniors). Since anyone starting orienteering in their late 20's/early 30's is going to need a few years before they're confident enough to do BOC, a healthy demographic for the BOC might be a peak at M35/40 rather than M21 and a tailing off after that. Is that the case?

BOC, JK etc will do fine if orienteering is healthy locally. The Westfield shopping centre event in London a few weeks back had a similar looking demographic to ParkRun, but I had the opposite experience at an event in Yorkshire a few weeks ago - at M45 it felt like I was one of the youngest non-juniors. Perhaps that's local demographics or the types of events, or because it was pouring down in Yorkshire and younger people aren't hardy enough for mud, wind and rain? (or have better things to do )

[smf]

Any treasurers able to comment on profit per large relay event compared with profit for a large individual day event?

Scottish Championships 2011 had a surplus of £0.54 per participant for the individual and £0.52 per participant for the relay.

[awk]

Relays...An entry fee equating to £20 per head for about a half hour's running, a sizeable portion of which was navigating to gates and running in a field. Not good value in my book.I accept the need to channel courses through the crossings, but to also sacrifice quality orienteering so that spectators could see more people running on a yellow standard part of the area. Bit of a waste.

Entry fees were certainly worryingly high, OH didn't run as a result, but personally I loved the relays - one of the best I've been to in a while (as was the JK for that matter!).

[braefordie]

I suppose it was too much to ask to get past the 2 Nopesport page mark before adverse comments were made.

"Forum: A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Am I missing something here???

[Dave]

Entry fees were certainly worryingly high, OH didn't run as a result.

But at the end of the day it's the National championships, or is supposed to be and it's still cheaper than athletics/road racing or orienteering in Sweden.

[seabird]

IWhat attracted them (the 21s) to the sport - we need to find out soon because quite honestly the sport is in danger of dying if we cant attract and retain people in this age range.

A possible clue: Our rather rain sodden sprint league event last night attracted twenty-one 21s or younger out of a total entry of 44, and three 35s. Some of the newcomers are beginning to find an interest, and their feet, in the more classic events.

[awk]

But at the end of the day it's the National championships, or is supposed to be and it's still cheaper than athletics/road racing or orienteering in Sweden.

All sorts of comparatives like that are frequently bandied around to justify the price, or otherwise. None are relevant. The fact of the matter was that, at £20 per entry, OH decided she wasn't going to run. Feedback indicates that quite a few people did the same for both individual and relay. I don't think any of them will have sat down and wondered how the races compared against either athletics/road racing (neither of which OH has the slightest interest in, other than as a spectator), or orienteering in Sweden, a country where the cost of living is generally higher.

Instead, she had a brilliant day out (including sun and snow!) on the Fairfield Horseshoe. Entry fee? £0.

[Dave]

[quote="awkInstead, she had a brilliant day out (including sun and snow!) on the Fairfield Horseshoe. Entry fee? £0.[/quote]

Why moan then? Boc surely isn't the right place to be giving away dirt cheap entries just to see if it sways a few more people who aren't interested. This should be done at local level, where events are more regular and (generally speaking) can require a vast amount of less manpower.

[SJC]

Boc surely isn't the right place to be giving away dirt cheap entries just to see if it sways a few more people who aren't interested.

Agreed. But neither should it be an opportunity to charge unjustified high entry fees (if that is the case) just because it is BOC.
Publication of the event accounts would make it obvious whether or not this was the case.
Will they be made available at some point ?

[graeme]

Scottish Championships 2011 had a surplus of £0.54 per participant for the individual and £0.52 per participant for the relay.

Poppycock!
Lots of us put huge amounts of effort into making those races a success, and to pretend it's all for 50p a head is a load of nonsense. No wonder volunteers think they're wasting their time!
In fact, the profit to the sport, (i.e. the difference between income and what was spent delivering the event*) is more like £4 a head. This healthy surplus is distributed between BOF and SOA (via levy), TAY (via new maps for which they paid nothing) and the organising clubs.
* Equivalently, the amount that the sport would be worse off if we hadn't staged the event.
You might make a case that the surplus is zero, since all the money stays in the sport.
Story with JK/BOC is similar, except that profit is shared with BOF - there's no "levy" to hide the true profit.

[frog]

I think you're being harsh on Simon there. Most of us don't count levies in the event profit (plus Tay only got half the mapping costs of Drummond back) and he was mainly responding to the question of profit from relays v individual events and showing at the Scottish champs there was no difference.

[graeme]

comparing profit from relays v individual events and showing at the Scottish champs there was no difference.

OK, fair point, they're both about £4 which is a little confusing given that the relay entry fee was quite a bit less (I think). At BOC I'd expect the individual to cost more because of the bussing etc. It really was a whole day out. I don't think the JK did a breakdown by day?

[awk]

Why moan then?

I wasn't. I was simply giving an illustration of one among many instances where your comparators were irrelevant.

BOC surely isn't the right place to be giving away dirt cheap entries just to see if it sways a few more people who aren't interested"

Well, OH has competed regularly in BOCs and BRCs for some 30+ years on a regular basis, so I don't think she could be described as being not interested. Nor is she looking for dirt cheap entries.

I also know she's by no means the only one who is being put off by these fees. Like her, virtually none of these people have moaned about it either - they have simply gone and are going elsewhere. Fortunately, in OH's case, simply to cheaper events.

Now British Orienteering and BOC/BRC organisers can take this information however they want, but that is the reason she and many others weren't at BOC/BRC. Simple fact - no moan.