Closed and open clubs
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Re: Closed and open clubs
I thought the CSC was no longer a British Orienteering competition?
- Eric
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Re: Closed and open clubs
‘You can join any club you want’
So orienteering is going down the football route. Next we will be hearing about transfer fees!
With regard to the example I gave in the JK relays - I do know that other teams were not happy with the situation. Orienteers who live close to each other, train together and meet every week felt cheated by the team with an ‘outsider’.
In my opinion it cheapens the result. BOC & JK relays are regarded by most to be a club/family event. It devalues the event if teams are made up from people who do not know each other. More a case of ‘fantasy O’
So orienteering is going down the football route. Next we will be hearing about transfer fees!
With regard to the example I gave in the JK relays - I do know that other teams were not happy with the situation. Orienteers who live close to each other, train together and meet every week felt cheated by the team with an ‘outsider’.
In my opinion it cheapens the result. BOC & JK relays are regarded by most to be a club/family event. It devalues the event if teams are made up from people who do not know each other. More a case of ‘fantasy O’
- Blonde bombshell
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Re: Closed and open clubs
Blonde bombshell wrote: The JK showed an interesting entry.
An individual ran for a closed club on days 1. 2 & 3 before running for an open club in the relays.
I don't share your concerns or the anecdotal concerns about this individual.
In my view, they are not in breach of the regulations.
Your concerns appear to be based on familiarity between members. The rules are not based on whether individuals know or train with each other. The rules are based on club membership.
If this team performed well - well done to them! If this team didn't perform well, I hope they had a good time!
"A balanced diet is a cake in each hand" Alex Dowsett, Team Sky Cyclist.
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mappingmum - brown
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Re: Closed and open clubs
Blonde bombshell wrote:So orienteering is going down the football route. Next we will be hearing about transfer fees!
but this is nothing new - there are quite a lot of cases of juniors joining clubs which have not been their local club to give them better coaching and relay opportunities and there are other ex-pats who have joined seemingly random British clubs - are you suggesting there should be some kind of residency rule?

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Mrs H - god
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Re: Closed and open clubs
Also, members (non-junior) picking their club based on the training opportunities and personal development potential the club offers. What's wong with that?
"A balanced diet is a cake in each hand" Alex Dowsett, Team Sky Cyclist.
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mappingmum - brown
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Re: Closed and open clubs
Thanks for all of the advice.
On the second point, is it normal to be charged a second membership fee if you change your nominated first club? We paid a family membership at the begining of the year then had to pay an additional single fee after the change of first nominated club!
Do you cease to be a member of a family if you compete for a different club?
On the second point, is it normal to be charged a second membership fee if you change your nominated first club? We paid a family membership at the begining of the year then had to pay an additional single fee after the change of first nominated club!
Do you cease to be a member of a family if you compete for a different club?
- Reiver
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Re: Closed and open clubs
I can understand joining a club based on training opportunities and personal development potential, but if the club is 180 miles away does it fulfil that criteria? In this case it looks more like pot-hunting either by the club or individual.
I don’t know what I would suggest (re residency rule) and there probably isn’t an answer.
At the moment, according to the rules, the GB squad could all join the same club and wrap up the relays. Winning by miles! (in theory)
Is that what we want?
Surely it is better to have teams racing head-to- head which is what we’ve got at the moment in most cases
I don’t know what I would suggest (re residency rule) and there probably isn’t an answer.
At the moment, according to the rules, the GB squad could all join the same club and wrap up the relays. Winning by miles! (in theory)
Is that what we want?
Surely it is better to have teams racing head-to- head which is what we’ve got at the moment in most cases
- Blonde bombshell
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Re: Closed and open clubs
Reiver wrote: is it normal to be charged a second membership fee if you change your nominated first club?
As you have already paid-up membership to both clubs the only charge which would seem reasonable to me would be from BOF charging an admin fee to change your club designation.
You need to determine where the fee originates from. It is from the club requesting membership - through ignorance they may not appreciate you are already a member.
Alternatively is the fee request from the BOF system? They may assume you are not already an existing member of the club. They have no means of knowing one way or another.
My hunch here is that you are a victim of non-robust protocol. No fee should be chargable but you are challenging the system by requesting a club designation change outwith the renewal period. Best to change this sort of thing at the BOF renewal period (oct-dec).
*This is entirely my personal view of an entirely bust 2 club membership system.
"A balanced diet is a cake in each hand" Alex Dowsett, Team Sky Cyclist.
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mappingmum - brown
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Re: Closed and open clubs
Blonde bombshell wrote:I can understand joining a club based on training opportunities and personal development potential, but if the club is 180 miles away does it fulfil that criteria? In this case it looks more like pot-hunting either by the club or individual.
I'm not sure whether you are refering to one of our teams or not. However, we had a team which somewhat matches your moan/bitch.
We had an M16 who is a part of BAOC, running in Mens Short in previous years to fit in with their membership profile. I suggested that he may want to have more relevant relay racing by joining SYO and running with our juniors and giving him greater experience to assist him in his personal development. Of course he could have joined OD or LOC

Are we as a family also guilty or subject to your scorn. We were members of EBOR but switched to SYO when my 4 kids were effectively the only kids running relays and therefore running either up or down to make the team work, I guess this would equally qualify for your disapproval.
We would like some more girls to join us so that we could field more teams at the Peter Palmers, I guess this would also not be popular?

"If A is success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut" Abraham Lincoln
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LostAgain - diehard
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Re: Closed and open clubs
i've always been keen on a NFL/NBA style draft for the whole of British Orienteering
GG to MDDXO
Scotia to LINOC
Rocky to ELO....
Anyone else keen?
GG to MDDXO
Scotia to LINOC
Rocky to ELO....
Anyone else keen?
nope it i still have the coolest hat in school
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eddie - [nope] cartel
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Re: Closed and open clubs
LostAgain
‘If the cap fits, wear it’. I was trying to keep the point neutral and not discuss individuals. However, your response raises 2 questions
1. How does running a junior relay assist the personal development of a top M16 compared to running in an adult relay? I would have thought it was the other way round.
2. Are you suggesting that clubs with low numbers of juniors/M 21s etc should try to recruit from other clubs instead of going out in their local area and finding their own?
Both the JK and BOC have relay classes where clubs with low numbers can fit runners in.
You may think I’m moaning/bitching/pouring scorn/showing disapproval. I think I am asking a legitimate question.
You may be playing by the rules, I’m asking if it is fair and in the right spirit.
‘If the cap fits, wear it’. I was trying to keep the point neutral and not discuss individuals. However, your response raises 2 questions
1. How does running a junior relay assist the personal development of a top M16 compared to running in an adult relay? I would have thought it was the other way round.
2. Are you suggesting that clubs with low numbers of juniors/M 21s etc should try to recruit from other clubs instead of going out in their local area and finding their own?
Both the JK and BOC have relay classes where clubs with low numbers can fit runners in.
You may think I’m moaning/bitching/pouring scorn/showing disapproval. I think I am asking a legitimate question.
You may be playing by the rules, I’m asking if it is fair and in the right spirit.
- Blonde bombshell
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Re: Closed and open clubs
mappingmum wrote:I don't recall ever seeing closed clubs in the CSC. I suspect the CSC is for open clubs only.
Not the case, we could enter but 2 things mitigate against it. Firstly several of us (the more active orienteers) are also members of open clubs. Secondly, it is the geographical issue of where the members are; for example at the moment I am the southernmost member, Sunlit Forres and Roomungous are our Northernmost members and Stevie Collins (ex-EBOR) the most Easterly in Cyprus. CSC doesn't work for us and I suspect the Uni alumni clubs will have similar issues.
(Edit: change westerly to easterly for the geographically challenged, thanks O Grizzled Lupine one

hop fat boy, hop!
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madmike - guru
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Re: Closed and open clubs
@Blonde Bombshell - we've been here before, a long long long time ago:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1023
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1327
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1023
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1327
“Success is 99% failure� -- Soichiro Honda
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brooner - [nope] cartel
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Re: Closed and open clubs
Thanks brooner – those posts were 5 years before I joined. As you say - a long time ago!
What is interesting is the final comment by stef. Little did she realise where her brother would go!
Also, juniors seemed to be moving to clubs in the same region, not the other end of the country.
Anyway, in 3 or 4 years it won’t matter too much. It will be another club and different individuals.
In the meantime clubs with a good junior ethos etc will have to accept that the relays will be won by ‘super teams’.
What is interesting is the final comment by stef. Little did she realise where her brother would go!
Also, juniors seemed to be moving to clubs in the same region, not the other end of the country.
Anyway, in 3 or 4 years it won’t matter too much. It will be another club and different individuals.
In the meantime clubs with a good junior ethos etc will have to accept that the relays will be won by ‘super teams’.
- Blonde bombshell
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