British Middles

[Gross]

Actually it should be re-named the EBOR Middle incorp. the British Middle Distance, the Joe Bloggs cup etc.... that way you can have the 'race', everyone is competitive & you can sort the sub races out to your hearts content!!!

Except BOF wouldn't agree to loss of control of the title 'British Championships'

[andy]

andy: I think everyone knows perfectly well what the official rules are, the intention of the poll is to see what people think the rules should be.

I know! I'm agreeing with the rules. Personally I think the British champion should be British. I like what we have in Scotland, Scottish Champs winner, Scottish Champion and then 1st native Scot. Perhaps 1 too many but definitely think a national champs should work out the best orienteer from that country, not who happen to be in that country at the time.

Not that I want to go off topic, but relays are different, the purpose is to find the best club relay team, so any british club member should be eligible for their club.

[aiming off]

Agree with King Penguin. Getting the residency rule appropriately worded is the key, I believe.

[andypat]

Isnt it a bit of a problem that you have a closed competition and then open it up to other people who cannot win. Its a bit like letting Manchester United play in the Scottish Cup but when they win the final you say to the runners up, Queen of the South (for example ) OK even though you lost the final 10-0 you are the winners because they dont count. Of course that doesnt happen because Manchester United arent allowed to compete.

For me if there's an eligibility criteria to win it, that should translate to who can enter. If not then open it up to everyone and let the best entrant win.

[mharky]

No, it's nothing like that, is it. Because in a knock-out cup competition, Man Utd would have knocked out several eligible clubs on their way to the final, and they directly interact with all those teams on the way.

It would be more like allowing non-European to run in the European athletics champs, having them win, and then giving the medals to the actual Europeans (i.e. the non-Europeans who have European passports).

But even then they directly interact with the other athletes in a far more direct way than in orienteering where it is individual start. Having said that, Linnea won by 2:15, meaning someone could have potentially got a tow the whole way round and won the British champs.

Now regardless of what the rules are with regards to who may compete for the trophy, is it fair that someone not eligible for the trophy can affect the results in such a way?

[andypat]

No, it's nothing like that, is it. Because in a knock-out cup competition, Man Utd would have knocked out several eligible clubs on their way to the final, and they directly interact with all those teams on the way.

Having said that, Linnea won by 2:15, meaning someone could have potentially got a tow the whole way round and won the British champs.

Now regardless of what the rules are with regards to who may compete for the trophy, is it fair that someone not eligible for the trophy can affect the results in such a way?

I've never been disagreed with in such an agreeable way! I suppose I meant to the external viewer as much as anything. Neither result seems to make much sense and it makes more sense to avoid the situation in the first place.

[graeme]

Now regardless of what the rules are with regards to who may compete for the trophy, is it fair that someone not eligible for the trophy can affect the results in such a way?

No, but it already happens in all classes except 21E.

[Kerry W]

How are you supposed to know from the results who was ineligible? Unless you know the individuals personally how can you tell?

[Kitch]

They smell funny


( and before any knickers get twisted; satire people, satire)

[Marco Polo]

Now regardless of what the rules are with regards to who may compete for the trophy, is it fair that someone not eligible for the trophy can affect the results in such a way?

No, but it already happens in all classes except 21E.

M21E- as Cat wasn't the fastest person on sprint final A2 either.
(But I assume that seeding should minimise this.)

Ok- I know the thread is not about the sprints, but you couldn't say that this couldn't happen at a future british middle final

[awk]

Now regardless of what the rules are with regards to who may compete for the trophy, is it fair that someone not eligible for the trophy can affect the results in such a way?

There was a similar situation in the sprints. Given that it was the British Champs, the non-Brits could (and did possibly) have a significant impact by preventing an eligible Brit from qualifying for the final. With no time carry over from the heats, someone could just qualify, and then achieve the podium.

[andypat]

No, it's nothing like that, is it. Because in a knock-out cup competition, Man Utd would have knocked out several eligible clubs on their way to the final, and they directly interact with all those teams on the way.

There was a similar situation in the sprints. Given that it was the British Champs, the non-Brits could (and did possibly) have a significant impact by preventing an eligible Brit from qualifying for the final. With no time carry over from the heats, someone could just qualify, and then achieve the podium.

Bugger - thats what i should have said Awk!

[frog]

I'd give it to Linnea because she was the fastest woman there and is a member of a British club.
If you decide to have a rule where only people eligible for the trophies can enter that will affect alot of British events. I did the NE England champs a couple of years ago because I was in the area that weekend. It would have been frustrating to have a quality o event a few miles away that I couldn't enter just because I couldn't win the trophy. Do only ESOA members enter the ESOA champs, and what about club chamionships? It starts to get a bit silly.
Good orienteers born overseas are going to think we are really xenophobic and it won't help build the sport.
I agree that for M&W21 maybe there should be course winner and "British" winners if people care that much about what sort of passport people have and won't let a member of a British club win because she wasn't born here. I don't favour a minimum residency requirement, I might change my mind if we get an influx of members joining local clubs with the local youth hostel or B&B as their "address" just before the British champs.

[Stodgetta]

I love how the "non-British" podium-placed competitors were given a BOF Buff for their efforts, though, just as a reminder...

[smf]

I'd give it to Linnea because she was the fastest woman there and is a member of a British club.

"OK Hal" is not a British club!