We don't belong here.

[frog]

Can't we just have "being a member of a BOF affiliated club" or "having a British passport" as criteria for eligibility. This covers folk over here for a few years who are active in the UK orienteering scene but don't want to/ can't change nationality and folk like GG and Scotia who are Brits living abroad? Was worried the JK relays might make me have to ask to see everyone's passports but am relieved the JK is excluded from this mess.

[SJC]

The change to an Events / Competitions Committee also brought in Association representation (a requested change from the Conference) for the first time in many years compared to the Events Committee which had no Association representation whatsoever.

No it hasn't. They are simply nominated by the association. They do not have to represent the association's views, and if the association don't like their views on any subject they cannot mandate them to vote in a particular way nor remove them from their post. Hence they are not association representatives.

This was the opportunity to make events committee properly democratic and for each association to have a fully accountable representative on it. An opportunity that has been missed.

[awk]

This was the opportunity to make events committee properly democratic and for each association to have a fully accountable representative on it. An opportunity that has been missed.

Indeed. The opportunities for democratic decision making and control are becoming ever fewer in British Orienteering, which seems to be receding at a rapid rate from any real contact with and relevance to its membership. 'Consultation' is a very useful euphemism, much used by politicians equally removed.

[aiming off]

What is the position relating to UK Cup points this weekend. Previous posts on this thread have referred to non-competitiveness for being British Champion (and it is a British Championships)

UK Cup Eligibility says

"UKCup rules

Eligibility

All runners properly entered on the appropriate courses are eligible to score ukcup points, provided that they are not declared as non-competitive and they are normally resident in the UK and are national members of British Orienteering or they are normally resident outside the UK and are full members of their national orienteering federation."

[King Penguin]

I do not know, but I would hope that UK Cup points, Masters points, FCC points, ranking points, UK Relay League points etc. are all awarded according to their own (unchanged) rules, including to those who are not British Citizens and therefore (under the new rules) not eligible to be crowned British Champion even if they win.
I accept this could be a bit of a complication for the organisers in having to submit differing versions of results for the same class for different purposes, and would hope that everyone will be understanding and tolerate any delay which may result, and any oddities in first submission of results which require correction.

[Scott]

What is the position relating to UK Cup points this weekend. Previous posts on this thread have referred to non-competitiveness for being British Champion (and it is a British Championships)

My understanding is that if you're a BOF member then you will get UK Cup points (and BOF rankings points/WRE points etc). Non-British citizen BOF members are still "competitive", they're just not "eligible for British Championship medals" (which is admittedly a slightly weird distinction).

I don't think multiple sets of results are required - the Scottish Champs has had three different overlapping sets of eligibility for years but only publishes a single set of results.

[aiming off]

So to be clear, the process of declaring yourself ineligible for British Champion in a British Championships in no way prejudices your eligibility to be competitive in a British Championships???

[Scott]

Yes. It might be clearer (or not) to think of it as a race with various different competitions taking place at it - the British Championships is one, but there's also the UK Cup, FCC, UK Masters Cup, BOF Rankings, IOF Rankings (have I missed any?)... as well as just the straightforward results of the race itself. Just because you are ineligible to compete in one of those competitions doesn't necessarily mean you are ineligible for the others.

This is distinct from the special orienteering meaning of "non-competitive", which usually means you can't take part in any of the competitions taking place at that race, including the results of the race itself (eg. because you have knowledge of the area that would give you an unfair advantage).

[aiming off]

So quote]the major advantage of using British citizenship is that it is fairly easy to prove, at least in the vast majority of cases. If we allow long-term residents to be competitive, it has to be done in a way that doesn't make life too difficult for organisers.[/quote], and in any case the organisers have to apply a residency test to determine eligiblity for UK Cup points this weekend.

So would it not be possible for British Orienteering tomorrow to issue a statement to the effect that they are prepared to use the same eligibilty test as will have to be applied for UK Cup points, including the residency test, for the forthcoming British Championships, to assess eligibility for British Champion? (Pending sorting out this mess)

This is what the majority of members want, and it would simplify matters for the organisers.

[Eric]

This is what the majority of members want, and it would simplify matters for the organisers.

Do they though?

[ic]

I tend to struggle with trying to work out what these large pictures mean that people add to posts. Graeme included one of a football player showing an under-shirt with a message. I have been trying to work out what this was supposed to mean. Could it be:

- Elite prima-donnas always have something sensible to say.

or

- Deliberately breaking the rules sometimes reveals a valuable lesson.

or

- Manchester City prove that money is the answer to sporting success.

or

- Italians are playing in our (England's - for clarity) elite football league's top competition (only for English clubs of course), why not in the British orienteering champs?

Not sure... But after a lot of thought I think it is probably:

- Only those with a Vested interest should be commenting on matters as the rest of us lack the relevant insight and motivation.

Am I right? A clarification of this and all the other hilarious pictures posted over the last week might not necessarily be appreciated, but could be of mild interest.

[frog]

As organiser I would have thought that if you had British champion had to be a member of a British club at the time or hold a British passport that would be easy to prove. You look at the BOF database, and nondoms have to wave a passport around. Same with Scottish champs being a member of a Scottish club.
I do wonder if we should just scrap all these nationalistic championships though and just have prestigious o events where the winner of the race gets the trophy/ prize/ accolade regardless of nationality and save all the patriotic "who is the best Brit/Scot" stuff for the team selection races.

[Tatty]

Despite what BOF says the new system is a nightmare for Organiser's. I'm still sorting out the BNC

[graeme]

what this was supposed to mean.

The slogan is "why always me". If you read my posts, you'll notice that I have:
1/ Come first in a national championships, but (as a foreigner) not been "champion"
2/ Won a medal at a Championship, when a foreigner who beat me was deemed ineligible.
3/ Lost a medal to a protest on behalf of a foreigner
4/ Been refused team selection for my club on account of being foreign

I'm not aware of anyone else experiencing all these things.
Now I don't agree with all these rulings, but I accept they are at least defensible.

[Big Jon]

This is what the majority of members want, and it would simplify matters for the organisers.

Do they though?

Lets put it to a vote at the AGM next month. Oh can't do that as any info needs to be in BOF Off at least 8 weeks ahead and the decision on new rules only publicised a couple of weeks ago.