We don't belong here.

[mharky]

I think my first daft said win...

Will you be running the Campionati Italiani?

[awk]

I think my first daft...

Nice one mharky! I'm sure we all equally know what people mean when they refer to British Champions in age classes.

[Arnold]

OK, since I've been mentioned by name a few times here, some clarifications about what happened in 2011. MIE is broadly right except that in 2011 the new rule introduced a grey area which the board tried to un-grey for 2012.

A summary of what happened from my perspective:
1) 2010 and before: Rule is "BOF member + 3 months minimum residency"; in practice anyone who turned up could win as surprisingly there were no random holidaying Swedes (and had there been, they probably wouldn't have wanted the trophy anyway).

Then someone thought "well there could be random holidaying Swedes, we'd better tighten up that rule" - in my view solving a problem that didn't exist.

2) So in 2011 the rule was changed to "BOF member + eligible for British Passport". That's what caused confusion - "eligible for British Passport" is actually quite complex. In my view, I was OK by this rule - I've lived here long enough that I could become a British Citizen if I wanted to pay about £1,000. So in my view I'm "eligible to be a British Citizen" and as all British Citizens are eligible for a British Passport I considered myself "eligible for British Passport" too.

At the Night Champs no one said anything, I got the trophy so I presumed it was fine.

Then at the Sprint Champs it changed, the organiser/controller on the day decided that Anne Straube and I would not after all be eligible. Anne put in a protest (Graeme: it wasn't me but clearly I didn't object to it - though the bigger satisfaction was catching you up on the day ) which I think eventually was upheld, and also the next day she was allowed a prize (I wasn't there) so it was all very confusing

3) Hence for 2012 the Board wanting to be clearer upfront and saying "British Citizens only" thinking that would be easiest.

And all that when there wasn't (in my view) a problem to begin with..

PS - I'm a bit embarrassed / surprised to be used as an example in all this. I never thought I'd be good enough to win anything but it seems M35 is the place to be if you're after prizes..

[Mrs H]

But how many Buffs does one person need?

[madmike]

I think my first daft said win...

Will you be running the Campionati Italiani?

Yes I will run at the Champs - competitively or not tbd.

My Club are having the eligibility rules checked but for them it is for the relay (surprisingly I am in the top 3 of the M45s in the club), however, I may have to be an Italian citizen to avoid the team becoming nc - I'll let you know what FISO says. I finished on the podium at Firenze on Sunday in the first test of the national historic centre trophy (sounds much better than NUL methinks!) and was given the medal but suspect the national champs will be different.

[madmike]

in my view solving a problem that didn't exist.

exactly right and, moreover, they suceeded in creating a problem that didn't exist previously

[NeilC]

Then at the Sprint Champs it changed, the organiser/controller on the day decided that Anne Straube and I would not after all be eligible. Anne put in a protest (Graeme: it wasn't me but clearly I didn't object to it - though the bigger satisfaction was catching you up on the day ) which I think eventually was upheld, and also the next day she was allowed a prize (I wasn't there) so it was all very confusing.

The organiser had decided that he had better things to worry about and thus decided to let whoever came 1st, 2nd and 3rd get their medals and let anyone who objected put in a protest. For the sprints someone intervened before the medals were awarded, for the middle they didn't.

[Kitch]

In amongst all the furious agreement...

how many "foreigners" give a flying **** about being British Champion anyway?

Perhaps the BOF Board should invest its energies in turning the British Chamionships into a prestige events for Brits before worrying about the invasion of the foreign hoards.
BEOC came about because BOC was rubbish - stupid times of year, weak areas.
BOF got their hands back on BEOC and BEOC became rubbish -

Half our best elite runners don't even bother with it,
and if they do then its not because its the British Champs its because its a selection race.

[madmike]

BEOC came about because BOC was rubbish - stupid times of year, weak areas.
BOF got their hands back on BEOC and BEOC became rubbish -

Kitch, was there not also an issue for some elites with the realitive lack of atmosphere at separate BEOCs?

[Kitch]

Could be, never a concern that I heard expressed.
though I don't ever recall BOC generating much of an atmosphere.

Anyhow I'm not talking about race day atmosphere. I'm talking about the prestige of the title.

What does it matter if the winner is a foriegner if Britain's best 4 orienteers aren't in the race ?

[70plus]

I'm not talking about race day atmosphere. I'm talking about the prestige of the title.

What does it matter if the winner is a foriegner if Britain's best 4 orienteers aren't in the race ?

This isn't a new phenomenon. Ordinary orienteers have felt for decades that 'the elite' (with a few exceptions) don't bother with many events south of the Scottish border - the terrain isn't there. They have better and more interesting things to do elsewhere. But it may devalue the title of British champion somewhat.

[ianandmonika]

This isn't just about the elite. Recognise they are the best but age class winners are best for age - the elite will all get there someday, and realise how good some of these oldies are/were. And a big issue is relay teams - many clubs have limited runners for age class competitive teams - take one out and many clubs can't field a competitive team. It's not all about the elite or individuals.

[JEP]

Agree with Kitch. BEOC for elites is much devalued with several elites absent. Clashes with Tio Mila have been raised on every occasion it has happened. BEOC in 2011 was moved to avoid a clash with the Nordics and then that was cancelled. Theses changes as with Tio date change by 2 weeks do make it difficult to sort out fixtures.

This year's clash with Tio was raised but no-one except me was at all bothered that several elites would be missing. No one was in the least bit interested in a change of date ie up yours to the elites - as Kich says BEOC much develued.

The only issue with non British being British Championships seems to me to be with the Elite classes. A bit odd having someone who competes at WOC for another country as British Champion - though of course Stan won two Swedish Champs a few years back as a Brit. But then again the Nordic countries wouldn't allow other country nationals to even run for a while but that has changed.

I would make the rule that anyone who is has competed for another country at WOC in the previous year cannot be competitive at BEOC. That would not impinge on any classes other than elite where there may be a perceived problem.

[Adrian]

In amongst all the furious agreement...

how many "foreigners" give a flying **** about being British Champion anyway?

Perhaps the BOF Board should invest its energies in turning the British Chamionships into a prestige events for Brits before worrying about the invasion of the foreign hoards.

I'm not sure if it'd sound less or more like the BNP if it was spelled right.

[andypat]

British Champion or Champion Brit? Surely it cant be beyond us to recognise the performance of the the best individuals at the same Championships?