We don't belong here.

[Kitch]

Nick
I like your point about Swedish athletics being weak and so protectionist, whilst Swedish O is strong and doesn't care.

think on that BOF.

Anyway what is the argument against foreigners competing?
That they might beat you ?
well tough.
man up, or deal with your own inadequacy.

Its sport, its competitive.
You go to a race, you face up to the people that are there on the day.
You don't go crying that its not fair because such-and-such is better than you and they are from somewhere else so disqualify them.

There should be one simple requirement; that you are a member of BOF

[SJC]

Anyway what is the argument against foreigners competing?
That they might beat you ?
well tough.
man up, or deal with your own inadequacy.

Fine for you.
Try telling that to a 12 year old.
But then again, we don't care about the juniors any more do we.

[Becks]

At the North American champs this year they're having a "demonstration relay" where two teams from Canada and two teams from the USA will run, and everyone else is expected to watch this "fabulous spectacle."

When I inquired about having hung the controls for the US Team Trials, run numerous training camps for their athletes, and raced there for two years, could I invite some British friends over to join in the fun and have a British team, the argument eventually boiled down to "but you might beat us." So I will be leaving early that day to drive the many hours back home instead of watching my friends race against each other.

The worst thing is that's pretty insulting to the athletes themselves. I'd like to see a bunch of relatively random Brits beat Kemp, Oram & Ross or Crocker, Saeger +1 these days.

[roadrunner]

Anyway what is the argument against foreigners competing?
That they might beat you ?
well tough.
man up, or deal with your own inadequacy.

Fine for you.
Try telling that to a 12 year old.
But then again, we don't care about the juniors any more do we.

Are you saying it's OK for a 12-year old to be beaten by another Brit but not by a foreigner? There can only be one winner, learning how to accept being beaten is surely a part of any sport.

[mharky]

Try telling that to a 12 year old.

What 12 year old? Or are you just being melodramatic?

It's a crap rule from stupid people in a useless work group from a jobbie governing body

[awk]

Anyway what is the argument against foreigners competing?
That they might beat you ?
well tough.
man up, or deal with your own inadequacy.
.....
There should be one simple requirement; that you are a member of BOF

In answer to the first bit - no I don't think it's not about that. It's about how you define 'British' Championships. If it's like some sports, and is a British Open Champs, then it shouldn't even require BOF membership, the British bit is simply where the championships are held. If the 'British' bit is about the people competing, then it's about how you define being 'British'. BOF have obviously decided that this means having to be a Brit (and defined that as having British citizenship). Personally, I think they've got it seriously wrong - British orienteering is not and never has been simply for those who are British, and I find that definition horribly exclusive and completely unacceptable. For me the best definition is that it's people who live in Britain and contribute to British orienteering. I don't think it's just about which federation(s) you have paid money to.

[Toni]

Thanks for all the support on here. when chatting with some of the other individuals effected we didn't necessarily believe there would be this level of support and it's nice to hear. To be honest as I have said I have mixed views myself about the individual because I don't think anyone wants to see a random Swede win. As for random foreigners I had a funny email yesterday that means that I will be cheering loudly for James Logue at British champs this year so I can see what happens when he declares that he is unfortunately not British as he was born in northern Ireland and thus is a UK citizen who doesn't even have a current passport to prove that.

[AndyS]

I've never posted on Nopesport before but I guess there was eventually going to be a topic that would move me to post for the first time...it's perhaps not surprising that it was a topic started by my wife.

We are really appreciative of all the support in response to Toni's post. However to make a real difference, it needs someone to raise this at the AGM. We'd do this ourselves but we won't be at the JK this year. This could be someone who is directly impacted by this change of rule however I believe it would be far more impactful if someone not personally impacted by this would be willing to take this up. Is there someone willing to do this?

If you want a reason to do so, here is the impact of this ruling on our family. Whilst orienteering is a wonderful family sport, it ceases to be so when one member of the family is excluded. We'll be in the Lakes on the day of the British Relays but neither of us will be competing due to this and as a result our club and orienteering numbers in general will be worse off. At a time when orienteering numbers are under downward pressure, it seems absurd that our federation is taking decisions that are alienating its members in this way.

[Mrs H]

he was born in northern Ireland and thus is a UK citizen who doesn't even have a current passport to prove that.

You mean they didn't even get the wording right? Bit of a blow to lose the whole of Northern Ireland after that wonderful British Champs they held some years ago not to mention last year's fabulous JK.

Andy I would raise it at the JK but I'm not going and as a well known agitator I'm not sure I would have been the right person. You need someone more respectable.

[NeilC]

It's a crap rule from stupid people in a useless work group

Could you clarify to which work group you are referring?

[Gross]

Ditto as Mrs H.... but if Mrs H & myself put forward a motion supporting the wording of the new rule then it would for certain be rejected

Actually this latest move by BOF is making me consider wether I actually want to belong to the organisation which no longer seems to represent the sport I grew to love.... and as a member of another IOF federation I could still enter any competition I wanted to in GB... which is very few!!!

[Meat Market]

I like this:

Anyway what is the argument against foreigners competing?
That they might beat you ?
well tough.
man up, or deal with your own inadequacy.

I have worked in Romania for 5 months now but in the first week I was fortunate that the Romanian Sprint Championships were opposite my hotel. When I finished and got introduced to other guys one of them pointed to my result and said "Tenth IN Romania, not bad!"

Before I started I did think of it as being a bit of a race for nothing because I wasn't a Romanian national but after I finished I realised the mentality of the others was that I was still there to be beaten and it was all about who had shown up on the day.

Maybe its different at the top but I think even national championships should still be about who has turned up on that day after they have pledged some kind of link to the country (National federation membership). For me National Championships should be a competition of who is available in that country to run on that day. If you want to avoid embarrassing the locals you can always declare yourself non-competitive.

[Meat Market]

Also 10th in Romania sounds a lot better than gazillionth in UK

[King Penguin]

Whilst I am sure that many of those present at the AGM would support a change to this new rule, I don't know how we actually get it there, other than as a non-binding "AOB" discussion.
As far asI can recall, the latest rulings (in)conveniently became public knowledge too late for a general discussion to result in any form of consensus in time for the deadline by which motions had to be submitted. A cynic might be tempted to suggest deliberate planning to this end, but is that stretching credibility too far ?
My fear is it might require sufficient signatories to convene an EGM, but that would be too late for this year's championships.

[graeme]

It's a crap rule from stupid people in a useless work group

Could you clarify to which work group you are referring?

The document says Rules Group but I believe that doesn't exist any more.

"Useless" is exactly the right word to describe a group which no longer exists.
It's hard to deny the word "crap" for a rule which requires you to be a "British citizen", when no such status exists (so strictly nobody is eligible).
I disagree with "stupid" though. Sensible people can do stupid things. Maybe mharky will prove the point by taking that back .