Trail O

[andy]

So what's Trail O all about then? I hear it's very closely linked to this orienteering malarkey.

I've never tried Trail O despite there being a world champs for it on my doorstep in June. I see there's a hastily organised British Champs happening next month. I'm a keen orienteer and I've seen the odd bit of trail O being held alongside some of our big events (the odd JK, BOC at culbin a few years ago) but it's never fit in with the event timings or location well enough for me to be able to have a go. It's almost as if the people involved with Trail O in the UK don't want us 'pure' orienteers having a go.

Why the distinct lack of publicity? Why aren't trail O types trying to encourage more people to take part by organising small events alongside O events? Also, out of interest, who's actually involved in organising WTOC? Volunteers? BOF?
I'd love to try it, and I actually think it would be a great thing to help persuade my non-runner girlfriend to come to events, she likes the navigation but just hates running...

Also, just after writing the above I've read this document, very interesting, can we have some more events please?

[andypat]

So what's Trail O all about then? I hear it's very closely linked to this orienteering malarkey.

I've never tried Trail O despite there being a world champs for it on my doorstep in June. I see there's a hastily organised British Champs happening next month. I'm a keen orienteer and I've seen the odd bit of trail O being held alongside some of our big events (the odd JK, BOC at culbin a few years ago) but it's never fit in with the event timings or location well enough for me to be able to have a go. It's almost as if the people involved with Trail O in the UK don't want us 'pure' orienteers having a go.

Why the distinct lack of publicity? Why aren't trail O types trying to encourage more people to take part by organising small events alongside O events? Also, out of interest, who's actually involved in organising WTOC? Volunteers? BOF?
I'd love to try it, and I actually think it would be a great thing to help persuade my non-runner girlfriend to come to events, she likes the navigation but just hates running...

Also, just after writing the above I've read this document, very interesting, can we have some more events please?

My theory on Trail O is that the perception of Trail O among foot orienteers, essentially people walking around a wood on paths finding kites and clipping a card, is too close to what Joe Public thinks real (foot) orienteering actually is, that its a bit embarrassing to admit its related?

It sounds like it would be good fun for map geeks but unfortuantely i dont know of any of those involved in orienteering.

[King Penguin]

Several members of recent GB WTOC teams are also regular competitors in the "standard" discipline.
I have no doubt they would love more publicity - wouldn't we all, for all aspects of the sport - but wanting it and getting it do not always go together.

Trail O also has the "political" advantage of being able to boost "disability" participation - by which I do not mean that you have to be disabled to participate in Trail O, but that those with disabilities which prevent running are able to participate on an equal basis.

[mappingmum]

I've tried it - once. There's a permanent O-course at Glenmore Lodge which is a trail-O course although there is no mention of it being trail-o in the bumf. It's hard.

[Paul Frost]

In case you missed it...
On the 25th Jan there was an item published on the Scottish Orienteering website by the organiser, who mentioned that they are looking for volunteers and who to contact.

There is also a featured link to the new World Trail Orienteering Championships website , launched this week, which includes some information about the public events. More details will be added in the near future.

I'd echo the comment from mappingmum about it being hard. At the coaching conference a few years ago we had the opportunity to try it out and understand some of the subtleties, and it was very hard.

[frog]

I'll be having a go in June, but only because it is on our doorstep. We're organising a footO at Camperdown park on the We evening after the TempO which i think is a speeded up version of TrailO, a bit like time limiting chess moves I think from reading the bumf.
I agree that at the JK the start times for trailO are usually similar to foot O so combining the 2 hasn't been very feasible. This year the trail O starts at the JK are at the end of the orienteering time slots so you could combine an early day 2 or 3 start with trailO.
It's hard to judge how many people in Scotland are into trailO as I don't know anyone who is.

[andy]

I'd echo the comment from mappingmum about it being hard. At the coaching conference a few years ago we had the opportunity to try it out and understand some of the subtleties, and it was very hard.

It looks it, but it looks like a good challenge that a substantial number of us map geeks would like to try. I would have thought pushing to put on a load of basic events would be a good idea in the lead up to a world champs on home soil.
I'll probably try to make the weekend events, but not taking the whole week off work after the Scottish weekend...

[graeme]

A few comments on trail-O, even though I haven't done it, to partly explain why.

1/ It's obviously very different to orienteering. It's a mistake to recruit only from the pool of orienteers, rather than more widely. (Urban races are making the same mistake)
2/ Most of the advertised events seem to be a very high standard (equivalent to "level-A" events). As a novice, this deters me.
3/ Every time they say footO they annoy me. IOF parlance or not, annoying recruits is bad marketing.

[JK]

Hi

this thread has raised a few questions which I thought I'd try and answer:

Andy/Graeme:
* You might have heard of the IOF website: http://orienteering.org - look on there for lots of information on all recognised forms of O: Foot, MTB, Ski and Trail. There are maps from previous years, rules and international results. If you look under Trail-O / Event Organising / Guidelines you will see Brian Parker's excellent introduction IOF-Technical-Guidelines-for-Elite-Trail-Orienteering.pdf which was linked in Andy's text.
I have used Foot-O before I started TrailO since it is what it is referred to in Ski-O circles!

* "Hastily Organised British Championships": I personally take affront to this. When it became clear that the BOC 2012 organisers didn't have the resources to put on BTOC as part of BOC I was asked to see what I could do. I found a great location in Lakeside and planned some good courses in collaboration with the YMCA there. Then in August on the night between WTOC days 1 and 2 I got an email from them stating that the previously mentioned "donation" we should make for use of their toilets and car parking should be 2000 pounds for our 15-25 competitors. I then had to start again with the planning. Since WTOC 2012 will be on forested sand-dunes I hunted around for an area near myself and found Newborough. It is FC and we had to wait a long time for them to assess environmental concerns and a large scale felling programme. So "Hastily announced" yes, "hastily organised" no!

* Publicity: BTOC 2012 hasn't yet appeared on the front page of the BOF website, I thought that someone had sent information about it, but note that the selction policy that does mention it appears in a side-bar. As did (if I recall) most of the reports about the Trail-O last year, including our team podium. Most people aren't interested in Trail-O, most people are interested in Foot-O, majority rules - I don't have a problem with that we are in the minority so we get less publicity. Having said that our Ski-O community is even smaller, but we got excellent publicity for our results because of the time of year!

* Timings: yes it can be hard to do both at big events, but plenty do so. Ian Ditchfield, Christine Roberts, Anne Straub and Charles Bromley Gardner (amongst) others typically do both. Personally I do the 45S so I can get properly recovered mentally for the TrailO.

* Events: yes we need more events, but we have an active community of 10-15 people who plan all the events. There is one more selection event before the selections are made and I am planning it so I have had to give up my chance of improving my ranking. It is a vicious circle - we need more events to include more people so they can plan more events.

JK

[JK]

Before deciding whether Trail-O is for you then I present below some ideas for the sort of people it might appeal to - and yes I agree it isn't for everyone.

Please read to the end

What is the point of TrailO to Joe[lene] Orienteer?

* If you are injured or otherwise temporarily unable to do your normal technical courses (later stages of pregnancy for instance - the top Hungarian did Day 1 in WTOC and then had her baby on day 2!) - you can still practise your technical map reading skills

* You are a good Yellow/Orange competitor and want to move up to the next level and learn about these brown wiggly things: you can practise Trail-O with the security of the path, yet learn a lot about contours and distance judgement.

* If you are an experienced youngster on a training weekend and need a short technical exercise after lunch while your lunch goes down and to give a break before the physical exercises to come in the afternoon sessions.

* You are an experienced orienteer and want to practise your "look up" skills. In Sand dunes for instance and you come over a rise it usually pays to spend a couple of seconds checking the "lie of the land" to know what you are aiming for, those few seconds spent could save many more. It can help with looking up at a hillside above you and knowing where to aim in Foot-O.

* If you are a World Champion Orienteer and want even more technical training, but you are already on the limit of physical training, and you want to give yourself that edge that the others don't have when moving at speed through highly technical terrain. I am sure European Trail-O Champion Thierry Georgiou and 2011 Norwegian Spring Cup Trail-O winner Olav Lundanes would no doubt agree!

[mharky]

I've always been interested in doing the Trail-O, and it seems that the JK this year will be organised to allow people to both events.

I'm suprised to see that the GBR team for WTOC will be selected based on national ranking.

[andy]

* "Hastily Organised British Championships": I personally take affront to this. ... So "Hastily announced" yes, "hastily organised" no!

Fair enough, apologies for any offence caused. Should probably have added an 'apparently' before it as this was my perception!

I'm surprised that at the JK (the event, not the nope poster!) the trail O events are being held away from the competition arenas. If it was right there (not a 10min walk away, not a drive away) and the commentators did the odd pitch I think you'd be surprised at how many give it a go. In saying that I'm intrigued enough to go out of my way to get to the JK event, assuming I have time to do so!

[Scott]

I did one day of the JK trail-O at Kyloe a couple of years ago when it was right next to the main assembly area and enjoyed it, although as others have said it was rather difficult. I would definitely be tempted to try it more often if it happened in the same place as the main JK - it would be the perfect way to kill a bit of time after my inevitable very early start on the Middle day - but I guess that that is often going to be impossible to arrange.

[JK]

Apology accepted.

One key aspect of Trail-O is that you have to have trails godo enough for wheelchairs. A second is that the 2 forms of the sport can cause contention for control sites so in recent JKs we have had the event a bit (understatement for cornwall) away from the event itself.

The lack of non-Elite events is also a very valid one. It takes a lot more effort to put on a quality Trail-O event and the additional setup for an A standard course, although not considerable does add up. As planner for BTOC 2009 I set a standard course as well, but in a way that it complemented (OK interfered with / distracted) the Elite course. Since Newborough is 2 hours each way for me to drive I am concentrating on the Main event, but have at least 2 events and a Foot-O on the Sat which will be very accessible to Foot-O guys (as long as you are good at contours and know your control descriptions).

I did a few Trail-O events a few years ago in the NW which were too basic - I could run round and do the course on the hoof - that didn't set the right impression of what Trail-O is. Its like showing a marathon runner a White course and him thinking that is what O is all about. There are some initiatives to have more Trail-O though. One idea is to utilise the dead time between Assembly and Start and put a couple of Trail-O controls there. It might even be beneficial for the O-ers that they can "get into the map". the SW and NI are both doing this at present (under the name Pre-O, Precision-Orienteering), and I believe there have also been some Y+H ones.

[andypat]

Thats not a bad idea - how about taking it further and having a sort of biathlon with orientering with a trail O bit in the middle? Meaning as a way to get foot oers into trail rather than specifically for disabled competitors.