Retention

[NFKleanne]

Retention is always being stated as a problem in this sport!
My geocaching friend has just informed me that despite joining BOF - she will only be attending very local events - so her youngest can take part still. After only 5 events she is fed up with the whole sport from club to top level. -
Both her children loved it, but the older child is very demoralized, by the fact that certain people have upset her mum at 2 out of the three events they have been too. Comments by some of the 'existing' community - when she was helping at an event - about doing a task wrong - have put her off helping, then she arrived early for another and was sharply told so - then the club printed a negative article (rant) in the newsletter, about lack of help - which also included the difficultly with getting youngsters intestered in attending stating "but even if we attract the parents, they must be willing to do more than simply attend, compete and go home, they must be prepared to help and some of them must start taking on the more demanding roles" - shes sorry but is not willing to help, when her attempt at helping was met with a less than enthausaitiac response to a simple question. She says people won't help if they do not feel supported in anything they help to do - advice on what she should have been doing, instead of back chat and thanking her for what she did do would have been far more positive.
She found both club and BO website very confusing - event details YBT/Compasssport trophy etc where difficult to find) and in local competition the courses for W14/18 (Lt Green/Green) were higher that the senior competition Light green. The kids are both very competitive and sporty , but with so few Juniors they were both club champs after 4 events due to having no one in the same age class.
Added to this is the fact that the juniors ages are incorrect on the new membership cards.
What a wonderful image we have created.
To be positive she did say the majority of members were friendly and helpful enough, and she had not had problems when at WAOC and SuffOC events. Unfortunately I think it may be too late, now

[Red Adder]

A very sad tale Leanne, but I suspect not as rare as we would like given that the sport has a fair few grumps and we don't always manage to hide them, especially as clubs can struggle to get enough helpers to even put on the event nowadays. If only they would keep their comments to Nopesport where they are recognised and more tolerated.

[Miner]

I am very sorry to hear about your friend's bad experiences. I am pleased to be able to say that the four clubs I have been involved with have always gone out of their way to support newcomers.

When I first started orienteering I offered to help but made it quite clear I didn't have any idea what to do! I was paired up with someone experienced and my very first job was pretty foolproof - sitting at the finish encouraging the juniors and collecting punched cards from the finishers.

Even when I'm on registration and have got in a muddle about the varying entry fees for members/non-members/juniors etc. no-one has moaned at me.

I sometimes think it is not always that clear to newcomers what to do when they arrive at an event, but I have never heard anything but courteous assistance given no matter whom they approach. Personally, even if I'm having a really grumpy day, I make an extra effort to be nice to newcomers because I know you can feel a bit of an outsider when all the old hands are standing chatting in groups.

I think clubs need to have a realistic view of what they can expect parents of young children to do. Often there will be smaller children in tow who can't be left unattended and who won't wait amuse themselves all day. Having a rota and encouraging people to just do an hour or two on registration/start/download makes it less daunting and encourages the family to stay with the club. As the children get older it frees up the parents more and often the older children like to help too.

There are a lot of people who don't really have experience of a club of volunteers running an activity. They are so used to paying for an activity at a gym/sports centre etc. they don't think any further than turning up, paying and completing the activity. Due to child protection issues there is a lot less parental involvement in children's activities and even hanging round to spectate is actively discouraged. Club culture can be something of a shock.

[FRBlackSheep]

I agree that it is the outside impression of the sport/club that needs to be managed - recently I attended an event where the individuals who were running the SI/download for the race were incapable of explaining what the reasons for the errors were in a calm or polite manner - leading to a number of disqualifications and results not being taken at all due to incompatability errors (not even a new SI card). This lead to an overall shambolic impression of the event and although very enjoyable, one which I may avoid in future due to having the same experience two years in a row - which leads me to think this is the norm for this club and not an isolated incident.

Yes we need to encourage and value our helpers - we can't cope without them, but we also ned to monitor and support them to ensure that newcomers and old hands don't get a poor impression of the events which we work so hard to put on.

[SeanC]

Did they pass on the feedback to the club concerned?this sort of feedback is gold dust for clubs - committees often are in the position of guessing what affects retention. Making those who don't want to volunteer to feel guilty is a great way to make people leave the sport but easily fixed by the newsletter editor.

The low junior numbers is a problem worth a separate thread maybe?

[usuallylast]

I can't excuse a lack of politeness, but I do know what it's like to feel a bit hot under the collar from being on the 'sharp' end of the download station. With the best will in the world, unless people want to pay the price for a pro download team, you are going to get volunteers, with other lives outside of orienteering, who don't get to do this for real more than a few times a year - especially in the smaller clubs. It can be difficult making an 'on the spot' diagnosis of a problem when an eager queue is forming, and trying to do so can hold things up at a busy event. We usually try to make a note of errors and deal with them in quiet spells. I also think some would be surprised at the amount of work that can be required afterwards, before the results can be published. Even the newest software doesn't do it all...
I've only been orienteering a few years, and I do feel guilty if I don't offer to help, but that's not because of pressure from the club who have been unfailingly welcoming and supportive. It's the knowledge that the events just wouldn't happen without the helpers. I agree that those with young families usually have enough to do dealing with the kids and having their own runs, but often the help doesn't need to be on the actual day - always plenty of behind the scenes stuff to be done as well.

[SeanC]

All this is true. I think it just shows that the classic colour coded event for 100+ competitors isn't great for newcomers because the main point of contact between the club and the newcomer is the (potentially stressed and far too busy) person at registration/download. Clubs can have another volunteer as meet and greet/information point but that's another person to find.

I think smaller, easier to organise, newcomer focused events (for beginners, less experienced orienteers and experienced orienteers looking for a training run) would be better for the people NFKlenne describes?

Traditional/classic/time trial O can be poor for younger juniors too as these are often in places where many parents wouldn't feel comfortable letting them compete unshadowed, and/or there's a long walk to the start, and/or a car park on a forest ride etc which isn't good for hanging around in. So that implies a typical club needing 3 series of events/activities:

- classic O for the experienced
- newcomers/training events
- events for younger juniors in small, safe enclosed woods such as scout camps and adventure centres.

This also makes marketing easier as each event type can target the different markets rather than send out the unpopular "sport for all" message.

Many clubs have moved away from the 1 district event a month model, but I guess a healthier mix of event types can be quite difficult to achieve when resources are tight? In case anyone hasn't noticed, BOF development grants (and other grants) can also be used for setting up a new series of local events (for SI kit, mapping expenses etc), or a club night/morning can be set up (in England) and the SportEngland money might persuade people to volunteer more.

[Red Adder]

I experienced a bit of the reverse today.

I went to a straight-forward CC event this morning - decent map, well planned course, everything in the right place , very reasonably priced. OK the computers played up so we didn't get immediate results listings but genrally I found it an enjoyable way to spend the morning.

Spoilt however by my parking space. Essentially whingpots to the left of me, whingpots to the right. Moaning about everything from the map, the courses, the runnability of where the courses went, the colours of the map, minutiae of organisation and probably the colour of the controller bramble bashers for all I know. The worst was the father boasting to his teenage son about berating the start officials for a minute as his description sheet was not printed on the map (a fact noted in the final details handed out by the car park marshal). If I'd been the start marshall I would have been very tempted to withdraw the map and tell him to go back to registration to reclaim his start fee. I had to move and find more congenial people.

The point being that sarky officials may upset necomers but the attitude of some of our existing competitors towards volunteers who put in a lot of effort to put on a good event can also leave a lot to be desired. When this attitude seeps back to our volunteers we can't be too surprised if their numbers also decline so that there soon will be fewer events for us all.

[andypat]

I overheard a conversation at todays event from a lady who had previously (last year) not renewed her club membership because, as she fairly reasonably put it, we didnt put on many local events for her to take her daughter to. She was quite pleased to come today and to find we had another local event on in a fortnight.

I suppose I should feel a bit more satisfied that we have potentially regained a member. But part of me feels is that really why we are doing this? Are we providing a service that people should feel they can complain about?

[SeanC]

I think people tend to comment on the map after their run as it's frustrating when a good run is spoilt by a mistake and of course it's always the planner or the mapper who caused the mistake (until the competitor realises what they've done).

However if this is all you hear at events - especially if it's over grumpy and angry - I agree this is depressing and gives a poor impression to newcomers.

The colour coded format doesn't help with this though. If all you do is turn up, run and go home then you don't get to know the organisers on anything other than on a transactional level. Most people aren't rude about their friends (at least where they think other friends might be listening ).

[lostdog]

I may be the newcomer that this topic was started about. Anyhow with a bit of encouragement from Leanne we ventured out again.
I think we went the the same event as Red Adder, luckily we got our times as the kids ran early and I presume the SI problems were later.(although there was an error on one split that seemed to correct itself at the end) So far this has to be our favourite course, the youngest did yellow and loved it, the other did orange and said it was the most difficult one they have done in terms of being able to run (maybe due to the winds a few weeks ago) but they also found it the most enjoyable course thay have done. I think both are keen to go again now, which is more than they were on Sunday morning.

I'm pleased we did not park where Red Adder did, we struck it lucky this time and only encountered very helpful and polite people even tho it was very busy. I still feel I know very little about the sport so will hang around the forums and see what else I can pick up.

[mappingmum]

Brilliant! Well done lostdog for giving it another go