Scottish Urban League proposal - comments solicited

[andypat]

Now that we have sorted out all possible issues with urban racing , we've put together a proposal to start a scottish urban league from 2012. It would operate along similar lines to the Nopesport national league with probably some overlap of events, but on a regional basis like the Yorkshire league. Roger has kindly agreed to assist with scoring.

http://www.scottish-orienteering.org/soa/page/scottish-urban-league-2012-proposal

If you have any comments about the proposal, scoring etc please feel free to put them on the SOA website or on here if its easier.

[AndyC]

Looks good in general.
As a member of the northernmost English club ( I even live North of Hadrian's Wall) I'm a bit disappointed that it is a closed competition.

[awk]

I'm a bit disappointed that it is a closed competition.

Same here. Any particular reason why, especially given the encouragement to attach to SOLs etc? Given the quality of both terrain and urban areas in Scotland, they would be an attractive package to encourage visitors (unless that's exactly what it is aimed to avoid?!).

[Caz]

but on a regional basis like the Yorkshire league

If it worked like Yorkshire then it would not be a closed competition.
Scottish orienteers will have the geographic advantage and are most likely to dominate.
Jayne and myself are looking at a Southern one at the moment and do not propose limiting it to just those from southern clubs for scoring.

[andy]

yes please!

[Sloop]

The Yorkshire Urban League allowed non-Yorkshire people to be in the lists, but not in the prizes.

The NW Orienteering League allowed non-NWOA people to be in the lists, and had no prizes.

To me, all these leagues should be open for anyone prepared to make the effort to take part.

[smf]

6. A competitor’s total SOL score from the season will be the sum from the best 4 events. All entrants who are members of SOA are eligible. Non-SOA orienteers are welcome at all events, but may only compete in the league provided they notify the SOL coordinator and finish at least 4 events.

I would have thought this rule or similar could be used in the proposed Scottish Urban League, if there has to be any restriction.

[AndyO]

Urban doesn't appeal to me, but I don't get the restriction to members of SOA clubs, nor even understand the need for a local or national BOF number to enter. I thought this form of the sport was seen as attractive to new participants?

[smf]

nor even understand the need for a local or national BOF number to enter

BOF numbers will be used as a participant reference in complying the league (as per the Nopesport League). There shouldn't be anything so stop anyone entering any event.

[graeme]

The point of the restriction to SOA members is that we wanted a position-based system and that all the races offer similar chances to get points. Otherwise runners at races with large numbers of non-Scots will be unfairly disadvantaged.

Simon: Using the SOL guideline also addresses the problem and seems fine to me (obviously it would, given that I wrote it) but it is a bit more work for andypat.

To me, all these leagues should be open for anyone prepared to make the effort to take part.

This is exactly the guiding principle: the league should be open to anyone taking part in the league, but not be skewed to people running in a single race who are not interested in the league. Finding a rule to capture this principle is difficult.

Anyone who wants to take part in the series is very welcome to join SOA ! As you can see there are lots of benefits

[mappingmum]

This is exactly the guiding principle: the league should be open to anyone taking part in the league, but not be skewed to people running in a single race who are not interested in the league.

What about a tick box on the entry form then? An opt-in box to the SUL comp. Along the lines of "I wish my run to be registered within the SUL yes/no".

[andypat]

Graeme has explained the issue re the "Scottish clubs" question and thats exactly the reason we put it out for comment. Its very possible that we could have 2 or 3 of the 7 events in the NUL which would signficantly skew the scoring for the league (since its based on finish position). If theres a better more inclusive answer then I'm all for it - get your thinking caps on.

I'm not averse to using the SOL system as suggested by Simon - although I am not sure how it would work if someone did what Simon suggests but subsequently failed to complete the 4 events - would the scores then be removed retrospectively Simon?

With regard to the BOF number -sorry thats a requirement for the scoring system which is already in place for the NUL courtesy of Roger - it needs this unique individual identifier to work. It doesnt stop people entering each individual event if you dont have a BOF number but you wont get a score for the league - I am fairly sure there is no simple way round that.

[AlanB]

Aw, nooooooooooooo!!!!

I was so excited when I saw the thread title - I love urban racing...

And then I read that races will usually be on Saturdays. I work Saturday mornings, so unless start times are available until late afternoon I won't be able to take part. Roll on retirement!!!

It does sound a great idea and I will certainly try to compete when I can. A couple of questions:-

How many races to count? Best four out of seven?

Points - "If the last-placed finisher in a given class scores fewer than 10 points, then all scores in that class will be increased by 10 points so that the last-placed finisher scores between 10 and 19 points." What is the reasoning behind this? Won't it unfairly reward the leading runners in very popular races?

Best of luck to all who organise and participate in the races.

[Gross]

Attract newcomers..... ???? Joke, joke, joke.... Mickey Mouse stuff.... come and compete in our nice Urban League, you can get to the races using public transport.... ohhh... but you can't compete because you have not joined BOF...

SOA should NOT BE MAKING BOF MEMBERSHIP a requirement for anything.... devise your own scoring system... for a position based competition it won't be very difficult!!!

[AlanB]

Graeme has explained the issue re the "Scottish clubs" question and thats exactly the reason we put it out for comment. Its very possible that we could have 2 or 3 of the 7 events in the NUL which would signficantly skew the scoring for the league (since its based on finish position). If theres a better more inclusive answer then I'm all for it - get your thinking caps on.

I'm not averse to using the SOL system as suggested by Simon - although I am not sure how it would work if someone did what Simon suggests but subsequently failed to complete the 4 events - would the scores then be removed retrospectively Simon?

One way to overcome this 'skewing' is the way we dealt with it in my old athletics club road running and x-c championships. Each runner was awarded points equivalent to their finishing position in each race amongst participating club members - 1pt for first, 2pts for second, and so on. To overcome the skewing problem caused by the popular, local races the points were revised at the end of the season - all those not completing the requisite number of races were excluded and the position points recalculated.

The downside is that true points situation going into the final race isn't known.

With regard to the BOF number -sorry thats a requirement for the scoring system which is already in place for the NUL courtesy of Roger - it needs this unique individual identifier to work. It doesnt stop people entering each individual event if you dont have a BOF number but you wont get a score for the league - I am fairly sure there is no simple way round that.

As long as it is made clear that the races are open to non-BOF members, even non-orienteers, then there isn't a problem. If the league competition catches their eye then it is a powerful incentive to join BOF.