Tim Watkins Trophy, 27th November

[ba-ba]

The UK Version of the Blodlistet (you know what that is, you're an Orienteer! [if not, it tells you here]) is again being hosted by SROC, this year on Silver Howe in the Lakes. Amid all the 'negativity' thought we should all meet up and have it out manno-a-manno as only we know how - mass-start in the forest!

6 courses for wide-ranging abilities, all the details are available from the link above.

Pair it with the Borderliners' nopesport urban league finale at Penrith on the Saturday, or if you don't fancy urban (woah, calm down folks!) you've got the whole of the Lakes to play with instead - I'm as yet undecided on which to do, maybe both!

Only done the TWT once but it was really good fun, the numbers were quite high with ShUOC and EUOC parties in attendance.

Silver Howe is a sexy area which wants you to run on it, so so badly.

[ba-ba]

Excellent. Had a nice trot around with the star of dodgy mexican movies for the first part, then he got scared by a gorge and I was on my own until I caught SimonG (twice!).

Murray won from Spongey and Hector (close together these 3) then a gap to Steve Birkenshaw, then the Jack Wood/RhysFR train (at least that's what I remember after a 2 hour drive home).

Hollie won from Rachael R and TessH in the ladies event (thanks to Tess for leading me and Ed a nice way through some Juniper bushes!)

[Zokko!]

Results here, RouteGadget here and a few photos, mainly of the prize giving, here. Thanks to all competitors for helping to make this an enjoyable event.

[epocian]

Can't see any courses on Routegadget

[frog]

It looks like there aren't courses as such just controls you visit as you wish. I only managed to see where the controls were by clicking on a name in the "draw your course " bit when all the controls visited by that competitor came up in the order visited by him.
It's an interesting idea and a possible variation for our long o. Shame it was on the same day as the scottish score.

[Zokko!]

Because this event had "free order" sections on every course you will not see a course until selecting a course and person's name from the "draw your route" box. You will then see the course that that person chose to run.

All courses had 8 free order controls, from 2 to 9, all of which were compulsory. This format is intended to allow some splitting of the field after they have started in the mass start.

[frog]

Have you found the mass start makes the event more attractive to hill runners who normally avoid orienteering events? We are looking at ways to get more folk doing our long o as we put alot of time into it for not that many competitors. We were looking at advertising on "adventure activity" type websites, but maybe changing the format and having a mass start might appeal more to runners without losing the appeal to orienteers if control choice and therefore more route choice was added. You had a good entry field, but some of that may just be an event in the lake district v an event in mid Scotland variation. Who do you advertise the event to?

[Zokko!]

In other years we have advertised directly to fell runners and have put on a technically easier runners course to cater for them. However we have found take up on this course to be quite small and so it wasn't worth putting one on this year. A small field tends to spoil the mass start appeal anyway. Another way we have tried to attract fell runners is by offering the same discount (£2) for FRA members as for BOF members. We had 5 such FRA members enter this year.

It's maybe worth mentioning that many of the orienteers who seem to like this sort of longer event are also regular competitors in fell races, so there is plenty of crossover already. There may not be a large number of runners out there who have not yet tried O but who would like to do so, since they will be constantly pestered to do so by fellow club members who are orienteers. This doesn't mean that there aren't other runners, non fell running club members, who we need to reach. Hard to say if the mass start format is more attractive since we haven't surveyed participants on this.

[Tessa]

Ba-ba - as I'm not sure which of my ventures into the juniper bushes you followed me on, I can't tell if that is sarcastic. I am certainly de-thorning my back.

Thanks to South Ribble for a great event. Was surprised that the gaffling system worked as well as it did, I hadn't known what to expect and but people did go different ways rather than follow which was fun. A lot depended on people's choice on the long leg after - there were so many things to think about so early on in the course. Great day out despite the wind, thank you.

[gaw]

It's maybe worth mentioning that many of the orienteers who seem to like this sort of longer event are also regular competitors in fell races, so there is plenty of crossover already.

Mention of fell running brings to mind how the fell running community have re-invigorated the Lakes classic long fell races by having a Lakeland Classic series comprising 6 or so of the longest races, 3 races to count 2 of which have to be superlong. Entries for the Ennerdale fell race fell to the point of cancellation one year but the Classic series now ensures it gets a healthy entry every year.
Could this work with a series of Long O races? Races which spring to mind are:
Tim Watkins
Warrior O Trial
Lake District Mountain Trial
Copeland Chase
Capricorn
Phoenix (too late to resurrect this one maybe)
Kinder O Trial (152 entries and hardly an Orienteer among them)
New Chew

I found the last two on the FRA fixtures and both are long score type events with entries by almost all fell runners as far as I can tell. Making a Series of these events could possibly tempt some fell runners to enter the Tim Watkins and Capricorn and also more orienteers to do the other races. Prizes for those who enter all the events, and for the class winners perhaps.

Would it be an attractive series and increase entries in these events?

[EddieH]

If I lived nearer the Lakes - definitely a great idea for both fraternities I think.

[ba-ba]

Kinder O Trial (152 entries and hardly an Orienteer among them)

Well Neil Northrop won it and I came 12th so there's at least 2!

Urban races have the nopesport league, it would make sense for longO to have some form of recognition above the British/JK Long - you could market it as miniMM training.

then there's the comparison of prices: Kinder Trial = ~£5 and you get some cracking stew, cake and biccies and somewhere to sit at the end.

If anyone within travelling distance of the Peak District interested in 'mountain trial' type things there's also the PeakO trial between Christmas and New Year. Organised by the peak's most prolific race organiser it's £5, food as per, and if you're lucky (and pick the right route) the controls might be out when you get to them!

[King Penguin]

Kinder O Trial (152 entries and hardly an Orienteer among them)

Well Neil Northrop won it and I came 12th so there's at least 2!

If that's the Kinder Skyline event then add the Dearden's to the list.

[Kitch]

The idea of bringing in fell runners with a long o series might work.
I think you'd need to have courses designed for fell runners though - rather like the LDMT - TWT - Blodslitet and Warrior would be way beyond a fell runner and play to the orienteers,
Not suggesting the O courses be dumbed down, but that simpler courses be added.
For fell runners you might call it the Navigator's series.

One comment on the Blodslitet.
The open courses were short by about half an hour, and it was pretty obvious that they would be from the length and climb.
I'm actually not complaining as I entered knowing what would happen
I thoroughly enjoyed the course and was pretty tired afterwards.

I don't know if the time of year was a factor but a plea to the planner and controller next time round: make it long, that is why it is there.

[peawet08]

I've not been Fell running or orienteering for too long (about 3-4 years) and consider myself a fell runner who does orienteering rather than and orienter that does fell running. Myself and a couple of other runners come along to many O events and enjoy them but I have tried to get other runners to come along to events without much success. All too many recall a time in their youth on school trips when they were sent for miles with a map and hated the experience.

I entered the LDMT this year for the first time and the New Chew and do like the longer format events. Whilst these events are physically demanding (for me anyway) they don't have the same technical challenge as the likes of the TWT but I can see how the simpler locations for control sites get more fell runner types entering (ie Obvious to find mountain tops with people in tents rather than hidden flags in a depression or behind boulders). Also, most fell races tend to follow well worn paths and allow the runner to keep up the pace, where as lots of slogging over knee high tussocks and through juniper bushes all day doesn't allow for "Good running". To draw in runners I think courses should allow the opportunity to find paths/trods and cover good ground.

The other (I'd say important) thing is getting it listed in the FRA calendar. If you think the event is suitable for fell runners or you are trying to draw them in then I would suggest you plan in advance and try to get it listed in the FRA calendar. I'm not sure who decides what does/doesn't get in the calendar but the New Chew, LDMT and Copeland chase all made it in.

Ultimately though if you want to find out what type of orienteering event Fell runners might enter or why they wouldn't consider an event then I would suggest you ask in the FRA forums which are very well attended and also have quite heated debates similar to those on the Nopesport forum.

One final comment I'd like to make is that all the course combinations and age categories in orienteering make it seem very messy to an outsider. A standard fell race doesn't have 10 different course options options (Black, Brown, Blue, Short Green, Very Short Green ..) and all runners tackle the same race regardless of age or sex. This allows me to rank myself in comparison to everybody that ran and by age category and I can see that this only adds to confusion when trying to draw new people to the sport. As a non orienter I "should" probably try the Yellow or Orange first but they would be far too short but a Black course would be too technical for a novice. I think the likes of the LDMT almost offer the competitor the equivalent of a very long orange course