Contribution

[Mrs H]

As I've said so many times before - it does not make sense to sell newcomers a version of the sport which is not representative of the real thing! This is why a lot of club nights and CATI's are doomed to failure.

The people who will take up orienteering properly in the long term are those who are looking for a bit of adventure close to home and who want to toughen up their kids and give them a bit of an airing.

A series of enjoyable, varied ,proper terrain events with lots of friendly helpers and something for the experienced orienteers so they can see the sharp end of the sport in action is a good formula. End of season score with party and prize giving finishes it off nicely.

I actually really like score events and seem to punch above my weight in them. Probably think a lot faster than I run - which isn't saying much!

[Paul Frost]

As I've said so many times before - it does not make sense to sell newcomers a version of the sport which is not representative of the real thing!

I have also said the same many times before...

It's also interesting that some very experienced orienteers have commented that they may not be here now if a Score event was their introduction to orienteering. I guess that we are back to whole question of what do existing orienteers want orienteering to look like in the future.

[SeanC]

Personally I think for most adult beginners an easy score with some harder controls is a better introduction to orienteering than a white, yellow or orange course which can be too easy or too hard. I do agree a real event with real buzz is better than a CATI, and if everyone starts and finishes together there is more chance of the newcomer mixing with the experienced and feeling part of a club.

I'm sure that there are also beginners who prefer cross-country/colour coded type courses as an introduction but it's hard to judge what is best overall from the existing orienteering population since most people will have started with traditional cross-country/colour-coded orienteering. Those that were put off by that format are doing some other sport. I know of two friends who tried O at colour coded events, and were put off. One did orange, wasn't offered much help and took 2 hours and felt like a failure/not competent. He almost gave up after spending 1 hour on an early control. The other thought it was OK but as he wasn't going to go very often thought that competing on yellows and oranges with lots of young children wasn't for him.

I know some events like the MADO events have lots of innovations to mitigate these problems and it also depends on the area. Street, park events etc are much more accessible.

I think club nights can work but I think need integrating with real events. Perhaps on Saturdays integrated with local leagues like the MADO league (eg club nights when there is no MADO and the group meets up at the local league MADO events?) There doesn't seem any set/defined way of doing this and the participation managers seem very open to ideas. Mrs H - I think you would be the ideal person to make one a success.

[Mrs H]

Thanks Sean but I've shot my bolt and more or less trialled this particular format already which would have worked much better if BOF hadn't made club only membership a no-no and anyway I'm not looking for another (unpaid) job. The partcipation managers are after all paid to make these sort of things happen. The MADO league is now incorporated into the HOC main programme and I am merely another helper at these events now.

I'm too busy organising the Great Malvern Urban Race. (March 10th Nopesport Urban League and the Day before the nearby Midland Champs - details appearing soon )

[seabird]

Great Malvern Urban Race. (March 10th Nopesport Urban League and the Day before the nearby Midland Champs - details appearing soon )

Has the 2012 League been announced?

[EddieH]

We seem to ignore that love of maps is an intrinsic part of this sport. Some people have no affinity with them - why should we expect everyone to love it? In my opinion an adult who is finding it hard having done several yellows is hardly likely to ever be an enthusiast. Most adults that understand and like maps in the first place aren't going to find any of the UK's TD4 areas are going to leave them feeling totaly lost - mistakes yes - we all make them and that' why it always remains a challenge.

Those that can't accept failure are never going to get on with orienteering.

Perhaps our success driven culture is the biggest problem we have to face. (I recently attended a talk by a businessman who had run a business angel company with an American millionaire who had one ABSOLUTE rule - if the person applying had never failed then investment was not even considered, he needed to know that they had some idea what to do when things go wrong.)

[andypat]

Great Malvern Urban Race. (March 10th Nopesport Urban League and the Day before the nearby Midland Champs - details appearing soon )

Has the 2012 League been announced?

Perhaps Mrs H has been given a heads up. WTH is Great Malvern anyhow?

[AndyO]

Steady, andypat. Mrs H has a long memory

try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Malvern

[SeanC]

I'm not looking for another (unpaid) job.

Just in case people aren't aware, there is up to £3000 available to pay coaches for 40 sessions in the first year of a club night and up to £1000 for set up costs - publicity, land use/venue hire/mapping. There's also up to £2000 for coaching in years 2 and 3 and by that stage the club nights could be generating income to pay for coaching.

I don't think all this was available when club nights started and dont forget it doesn't have to be evenings or (always) from a leisure centre.

Funding for the project is up to 2013 I think (though more SportEngland money could arrive then) so time is running out if your club doesn't want to miss out.

[Mrs H]

Despite my moaning I actually think the paid/unpaid situation is very tricky. I was absolutely evangelical about MADO when we set it up. It would have been the shock of my life if no one had turned up and so it became a matter of pride that it should succeed. Me and Mr H spent far more time than we could afford on it and our enthusiasm was caught by a good sized core crew of dedicated helpers without which it wouldn't have happened. I like to think that people enjoyed helping at MADO as much as racing.

If I'd been paid I'd have done the job i was paid to do and i'm not sure others would have been so supportive. Without that tidal wave of enthusiasm from others it wouldn't have worked as well as it did.

I am not a coach but I am a keen orienteer. but I am aware of community orienteering club nights being delivered in a comparable area within my region by a paid coach (although I'm not sure they are an active orienteer) which no one is attending.

It would be interesting to know which of the factors has made the difference?

[obody]

Certain quarters of this forum are inspiring some new slogans for the events you're discussing.

How's about

'Orienteering, the adventure sport for all - as long as you've been a regular participant for at least 100 years, otherwise you'll be patronised, ignored and regarded as an inferior being'.

(the coach referred to above hasn't been orienteering regularly for the last six months because of undergoing rehab for a serious injury, so has instead put on events, coached sessions and even run a club. Not enough for you?)

If that's not catchy enough, what about

'Orienteering, the adventure sport where all volunteers are welcomed with public criticism, insinuation and ridicule (particularly if they don't comply with the 100 years rule)'

Never mind the type of events, maybe some people should be looking closer to home at what might be putting newcomers off. Clearly there are many shining examples in the sport to whom this doesn't apply - just a shame their efforts are tainted by the poor attitudes of others.

[Mrs H]

Dunno what your beef is obody - I was illustrating the tricky business of paid/unpaid input and pondering the unpredictability of returns. I didn't criticise the coach whom I've never met and I would be delighted to be told that the club evenings are a success - can you enlighten us - how many people are going and how many of them are newcomers?

[smf]

Great Malvern Urban Race. (March 10th Nopesport Urban League and the Day before the nearby Midland Champs - details appearing soon )

Has the 2012 League been announced?

I believe it is to be announced soon.

[awk]

Certain quarters of this forum are inspiring some new slogans for the events you're discussing....

Hmmmm. Before you start slagging people off yourself, do make sure that you know the background of the people you are slagging off, especially when your slagging is so transparently inaccurate.

[AndyO]

Oh, awk, don't patronise

Remember, though, obody, that Nopers generally like orienteering and want to spread the word, attract newcomers, and see success for GB competitors. As awk implies, many of the people you criticise are very experienced and have a history of positive contribution to the sport.

All contributions here are free. Positive contributions are welcome.