Contribution

[Mrs H]

The Western Night League is a one hour score format but without a mass start - a one hour start window with punching start and there is a nominated yellow loop of say controls 1-10 with a few orange controls temptingly close to encourage the adventurous beginner or more timid night orienteer. Seems to work well as we all get to the pub within a reasonable time haven't seen it used in day light but it would seem to preclude the problems Paul mentions.

[SeanC]

When I have questioned members (in particular less experienced orienteers) about putting on more score courses I got quite a few replies that they found them too hard.

A score map has no guidance on which direction to go, how many controls you would be expected to visit or an estimate of how long it would take.

The way we get round this at our beginners series is basically to make most of the controls quite easy. We split controls into 3 groups, 60s are very easy and are basically arranged as a 2kish yellow/white standard course on main paths, 70's are a little bit harder, on large features a few metres off paths and only the 80's are what experienced orienteers might call hard. Because it's mass start we announce this convention at the briefing and competitors get their map at registration so they can be shown which ones they can try. Many complete beginners get over 2/3rds of the controls and because they find so many (and their score isn't too far off the experienced orienteers) they go away with a feeling of success.

The 80's were added just to get enough experienced orienteers to turn up to make the events profitable, but quite a few seem to like racing round the easy ones, especially if it's a grotty area in summer which means not too much bramble bashing.

They could also encourage pack running, as everyone is potentially on the "same course", so it's safe to just follow anyone.

I think for small events this is a good thing - people are racing each other and that means they might talk to each other after the event. With a smaller turnout the pack generally splits after a few controls in my experience anyway.

I personally hate them, my brain can't cope with the multiple decisions that need to be made.

I prefer the cross country format too, and probably so do most people reading this, but at the local level we have to ask "who are the events for?* Personally I wouldn't want to send an inexperienced friend of mine to a classic colour coded event unless I was going with them as I think the experience might put them off, but I would to such score events when designed specifically for beginners (with a few bonus features for the experienced)*. The colour coded format is the other way round, an event for the experienced and for juniors with a few concessions for the inexperienced.

* of course, IMHO some other formats are good too eg London ParkRace series.

[awk]

But I agree that for more experienced orienteers they do offer the mass start/finish option. I personally hate them, my brain can't cope with the multiple decisions that need to be made.

I much prefer events with a 'course' compared to score events as well, not being over fond of the latter by any means, but the format does have its place. It certainly works, for instance, in our winter midweek night series, where having everybody out and back within 45 minutes has its (distinct!) advantages. But I wouldn't travel any distance for one.

[seabird]

One disadvantage I have often heard voiced of score events is that they are more dangerous because inexperienced orienteers could go anywhere - and hence be more likely to get into difficulties.

Sean has given one example of how to reduce the risk.

Last night 15 minutes after we had finished there were still two girls, aged 11 & 14 running together, who were missing. Another great advantage of the mass finish then became apparent. There were loads of people still around to take part in a search over the whole area. This quickly located our disorientated, but apparently calm, girls - and all the controls were collected in by the search party at the same time.

[Paul Frost]

Looks like someone is listening to these thoughts of an ideal experience:
triadventure.co.uk

Using your map navigate to as many checkpoints and cover as much distance as you can within the 1 hour limit.
There is a maximum of 10 checkpoints set over a course of approximately 12km.
Competitors must collect a minimum of one run checkpoint to qualify. Each checkpoint is worth 10 points.
Competitors will incur a penalty of 1 point per 30 seconds they are late back.
After the event, download your SI Card at the registration desk, collect your statistics and check the instant results service while enjoying a cup of tea/coffee and a biscuit

All for the bargain price of £12.50

So lets not get hung up about how low we need to set our entry fees to encourage participation.

I'm actually quite impressed at how attractive the website makes the concept sound compared to "come along to a orienteering score event", I like the website design too.

[Gross]

and all the controls were collected in by the search party at the same time.

I hope none of the controls were pulled untill those searching knew that the girls were safe....

[AndyO]

The Triadventure website does well in promoting the sport and it encourages newcomers to try it. The navigation will be pretty basic for experienced orienteers, but the blurb appeals to athletes from different backgrounds to give it a go.

Its a simple concept with no complex rules, and is well explained and presented, so it will be interesting to see how it fares. I still think orienteering is a better product, but we could certainly learn some lessons in marketing.

[SeanC]

Another advantage of the mass start score format is that because the event is simplier to organise, more time can be devoted to publicity and marketing.

Once you take the view that the event is mainly for new and inexperienced orienteers then a more imaginative pricing and marketing strategy is possible. I agree we can charge more than is typical at these events without impacting attendance from this group. This might offend some experienced orienteers but reduced entry fees or free runs could be offered to those who help out at the start, or collect in controls etc.

I forgot, another advantage - it's easy to get the controls in as you can normally get some volunteers at the post race debrief/prizes.

It does require some skill to produce such nice clean websites, and I think many clubs don't have it. There may be a market for an orienteer willing to offer such services at a cost to other orienteering clubs. Would anyone be interested?

[andypat]

Looks like someone is listening to these thoughts of an ideal experience:
triadventure.co.uk

Using your map navigate to as many checkpoints and cover as much distance as you can within the 1 hour limit.
There is a maximum of 10 checkpoints set over a course of approximately 12km.
Competitors must collect a minimum of one run checkpoint to qualify. Each checkpoint is worth 10 points.
Competitors will incur a penalty of 1 point per 30 seconds they are late back.
After the event, download your SI Card at the registration desk, collect your statistics and check the instant results service while enjoying a cup of tea/coffee and a biscuit

All for the bargain price of £12.50

So lets not get hung up about how low we need to set our entry fees to encourage participation.

I'm actually quite impressed at how attractive the website makes the concept sound compared to "come along to a orienteering score event", I like the website design too.

I sometimes wonder if Orienteering shouldnt be given the O equivalent of the once over by the Hotel inspector or Supernanny!

While I dont think its necessarily a fair comparison between this and orienteering - these guys are clearly in it for the money rather than volunteers doing it in their own time - but I bet they dont have (for example) a set of heiroglyphics indecipherable to the uninitiated to tell you what each check point is hung on, or maps with no legend, or any of the 101 other things us experienced orienteers take for granted that scare newcomers off!

[SeanC]

Those programs are entertaining but scripted. I think a useful equivalent would be development officers from outside a club giving a frank assessment of strengths/weaknesses and helping to draft a club development plan. It might not make such good TV and it isn't something that exists in England (in my region in any case).

[Paul Frost]

It does require some skill to produce such nice clean websites, and I think many clubs don't have it. There may be a market for an orienteer willing to offer such services at a cost to other orienteering clubs. Would anyone be interested?

Someone has been doing it for a while.

[Big Jon]

But I agree that for more experienced orienteers they do offer the mass start/finish option. I personally hate them, my brain can't cope with the multiple decisions that need to be made.

I agree completely - I can count on the fingers of one hand how many score events in which I have successfully made correct control choices and timing. I much prefer a straight forward cross-country course, nice and simple for my simple brain!

[EddieH]

I very much doubt that had score events been the norm when I started that I'd ever have got hooked on the sport.

I quite enjoy them as informal training, but there again I ignore the time limit (other than to the extent of not leaving the organisers wondering where I am).

[AndyO]

I agree that Score events are good fun for a change or at a festive or training session when you don't need to get too hung up on best selection of route to gather the most points. In a competition it is information overload when you first see the map, and it seems that however much I try to take extra time at the start to plan a route, I almost invariably set off in the direction that very soon proves to be daft, and I either run out of controls and have to make a long run to another part of the map, or find myself isolated and running out of time

EddieH's approach is simpler and avoids all the angst, and actually lets you enjoy the forest. You do get some embarrassing scores all the same...

[SeanC]

That is an argument for giving the maps out at registration, or even publishing them online before the event, at least for the local informal type score event.

I do agree that there needs to be a balance so that there are challenging events for the experienced and those that learn quick/have the background to succeed quickly in orienteering. Courses for horses?

This weekend there are the following events on offer according to the BOF event list:

Saturday (all level D)

Cross country 8
Sprint 1
"Street and possible score" 1

Sunday (all level B and C apart from one event)
Cross country (and some town in one case) 9

Midweeks seem to have about 50% score events which makes sense as people want to clear up and go home quickly/go to the pub. Sundays are mostly big events for experienced orienteers so it makes sense that there are no score events, but it's surprising that the Saturday events, which are all level D events and presumably more focused on the newcomer, have so few score events.

I wonder whether there is the tendancy is for these Saturday events to become just mini-versions of the sunday cross-country events to suit the experienced orienteers who make up most of the customers, and perhaps don't always fulfill their aims (of generating new orienteers assuming that is a main aim)?

Obviously not a representative sample and I've got the details from the BOF list which might not be completely filled in in all cases.