SCOTTISH 11/8 or whatever Relays

[Gross]

A very pleasant day out for the small numbers there Interesting to orienteer (?) on that kind of terrain again... made a Mr Beginner's error by turning left instead of right and another when I saw the sign on the gate advising the public about the orienteering and then I (wrongly) assumed I was at the end of the map.... seems it's another access condition for orienteering....

Bracken remains a pain in the butt where ever you find it!!

Weather was definately bettter than the last time I orienteered at Mugdock when snow & blizzards overtook our lonely start tent at one of the Short Race Series Competitions

Thank you Paddy & Clyde for a pleasant morning

[andypat]

Glad you enjoyed it. Not quite such a stern test as the Scottish relays. Well done to Tay (8 person) and FVO (11 person) winners. Be interesting to get some feedback from the Northern clubs such as Gramp/Maroc and Invoc as to what if anything might have persuaded them to come.

[EddieH]

If truth be told probably the real answer is that there is a lot of quality orienteering up north, and whils Mugdock is no doubt very pleasant, it hardly matches up. I wanted to come but could get no team up, not even making up numbers with the GRAMP members that were keen.

[Freefall]

A few of us were at the White Rose. Excellent event on some very nice bits of forest with a good Paul Taylor map.

[smf]

ESOC had two teams today, one 11 & one 8 (N/C) person team. The third leg runners of our 8 person team had already run 1st or 2nd legs in the 11 team. ( We could of had two 8's instead, but as a large club we cannot win the 8 )

Last year we had one complete 11 and one complete 8. In 2009 it was two 11's and one 8. This year ten of our members who ran last year didn't participant. At least eight of them are away on holiday.

I think the main reason for a low turnout this year was the date of the event. Previously it has been held in September and usually on the same weekend as a SOL.

[Big Jon]

AndyPat
I'd second Eddie's answer as to why the northern clubs didn't travel to Dogmuck Country Park. Tho' if there had ben a Sol in a decent area nearby on the same weekend perhaps we could have persuaded enough club members to attend. Instead today Maroc had a turn-out of approx 25 orienteers (low numbers - possibly due to clash with 100m and 10,000m) to its training session at a wood near Banchory. More and more I believe that the key to getting new members and retaining them is to offer lots of local orienteering.

[andypat]

Sounds like the event itself doesnt have a big enough draw to stand alone and needs to be paired up with a bigger event to attract sufficient interest. We kind of new that anyway, but the 11 person seems to be given to clubs on a rota independent of the SOLs. We had no option of a SOL to put it on with (at least not down here). I think its unlikely that the 11 person will regularly be on a area where the area itself is the draw.

Clyde did try to make a weekend of it with the West End Urban event. But clearly that didnt generate sufficient interest to go ahead, and was doomed from the start if the bigger clubs form up north werent going to make the trip for the relay.

I wonder if there's a case for making the Interclub relay a standing fixture somewhere in the middle of Scotland during September and asking clubs to bid for this and a SOL nearby.

[lindseyk]

Unfortunately having a SOL the day after something else isn't ideal either because a lot of people will want to save their energies for the SOL. Having a SOL on the Saturday and the relays on the Sunday would be a better idea in my opinion, but that makes life more difficult for the SOL organising team as they would need the Friday off work.

[andypat]

Its not quite the jukola but....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSaQobQz5-Q

[RS]

Would have come to the urban but couldn't find any details and eventually discovered it had been cancelled. Glad we hadn't wasted money on accommodation.

[graeme]

Eleven Person Relay

1 114 FVO FVO Flyers 02:11:28
2 112 CLYDE Clyde Destroyers 02:34:05
3 113 ESOC ESOC Eagles 02:36:16
4 115 FVO FVO Flyers too 02:56:55
5 111 AYROC AYROC 03:10:31

Eight Person Relay

1 818 TAY TAY Tearaways 02:59:03
nc 813 ESOC ESOC Kestrels nc 02:29:31
nc 814 FVO FVO Flag Chasers nc 02:33:18
nc 817 STAG STAG nc 02:35:21
nc 815 INT Interlopers nc 02:36:05
dq 811 ECKO ECKstreme mp 02:43:59
nc 810 CLYDE Clyde Cruisers nc 03:02:06
dq 816 KFO KFO Compos mp 03:07:49
nc 812 ELO ELOpers nc 03:11:49

[Sunlit Forres]

I agree with Big Jon. Encouragingly, the fact is that there are loads of orienteering going on in most clubs' areas - events that can be done cheaply without taking up the whole day. A lot of our members come orienteering because it's accessible. They have other lives too, and we probably have to accept that they'll be very selective about going further afield. Even the die-hards were luke warm about it as we've all had a week at the 6 Days and the SOL season's about to resume.

The 8/11 PR makes a great club day out provided it's not too far away. I think most clubs treat it as a fun event rather than a major competiton, so it's probably best not to expect too many clubs to travel. Targeting the reasonably local clubs, and getting them to enter as many teams as possible could be the answer. How about keeping it as an 8-person relay for all clubs and trying to increase the total number of teams?

[andy]

How about keeping it as an 8-person relay for all clubs and trying to increase the total number of teams?

Have to agree with this, having two 'classes' makes it considerably less exciting. I was continually asking other esoc people 'how are we doing' and nobody ever knew (although I realise this is partly to do with software limitations). For me it's all about having one big competition which is easy(ish) to follow.

[EddieH]

Wow it looks a little more pleasant weather down there. Had you had our weather in that changeover it might have been a bit dire. Maybe not a NY hurricane, but getting close and a hell of a lot colder. real temperature when i ran along the cliff path 7.3 deg C and 70 mph wind recorded not far away - exciting stuff but not for a relay.

[Paul Frost]

When EckO organised this event in 2006 we realised that it had to be paired up with a SOL and on an attractive area, so chose Achlean. An extract from my report at the time:

EckO are a very small club and I recognised that most of our ‘local’ orienteers would not travel the distance to Achlean, so we could be quite tight on helpers. It did also mean that travel time & costs for the planner & organiser would be higher. However, I feel that it was the correct decision – to put the event on with SOL 6 and attract people to some excellent orienteering terrain for a double-header weekend. At this time of year, the west still has some midges, bracken and the weather can be doubtful. We also did not have the manpower to offer any ‘on the day’ courses, but we did provide a huge sandpit for the younger folks to play in!

I suspect that the earlier date was an issue for many people, EckO really struggled to find 8 people that weren't still away or going away due to the English Bank Holiday weekend. Teachers and kids have only just gone back, students are still off, and it's only been a few weeks since the 6 Days

Whilst I understand Lindsey's point about people saving themselves for the next day I wonder if this only applies to those at the top of the results table. Plus if that is the case how do people cope at multi-day events? I guess it depends on why you go orienteering, I go to enjoy and challenge myself, so multi-days provide more opportunities.
I also wonder if the drive to earn ranking or masters points puts people off going to events that don't have them. I have certainly heard people choosing one event over another due to points available rather than the quality of the terrain.

A group of EckO members were chatting over things yesterday and asking about who was going to what for the Autumn SOL's, and everyone agreed that it's much more attractive if there is an event on the Saturday as well.
If you are going to drive for several hours it needs to be worth it, and making a 'weekend' of it can be more sociable as well, we often try and camp together or get rooms in the same Motel and then eat together. Fuel costs really are an issue now as well, so it makes sense to combine events.