WOC in the future

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[Big Jon]

Mixed sprint relay - I agree, a total joke. No other endurance sport tries to match women against men. At the World Games there was a mixed relay and some teams had the longer split for the women and some for the men, guess who won. IOF officials couldn't understand it "all the teams ran the same gaffles" they claimed, completely overlooking the fact that having women on a longer gaffle, even if only a couple of hundred metres, has a huge effect ESPECIALLY WHEN A SPRINT RELAY IS PROPOSED. Will they ever learn? I doubt it - too many heads counting numbers of angels on a pin head to have any contact with reality.

[Kitch]

utter pish
to what end?
and if at the exxpense of a proper relay then.... words fail me

[cbg]

Mixed sprint relay - I agree, a total joke. No other endurance sport tries to match women against men. At the World Games there was a mixed relay and some teams had the longer split for the women and some for the men, guess who won. IOF officials couldn't understand it "all the teams ran the same gaffles" they claimed, completely overlooking the fact that having women on a longer gaffle, even if only a couple of hundred metres, has a huge effect ESPECIALLY WHEN A SPRINT RELAY IS PROPOSED. Will they ever learn? I doubt it - too many heads counting numbers of angels on a pin head to have any contact with reality.

It shouldn't try to match men against women, but that's no reason why women can't be matched angainst women and men against men, and nations' top 2 (or 3/4 if a sprint) women and top 2 etc men.

I suppose that the idea is to maximise TV coverage in, say, a 1 hour programme slot. Probably the only way that O would get into the Olympics.

No, I'm not a sprint, or urban, fan (i like running in forests for long times), but I do now acknowledge that they are both Orienteering.

[Becks]

I love sprint relays. They're awesome. To race in, as a fun thing to do before your club barbecue.

Sprint relays, especially of the mixed kind, at WOC, are bollocks. The men's relays is one of the most awesome demonstrations of our sport, and should be left well alone.

[OCM45]

Maybe IOF are planning on hosting a barbecue after their WOC sprint relay?

[Scott]

Yeah, I think the mixed relay is probably seen as the strongest candidate for an Olympic event - and Ski-WOC already has a mixed sprint relay. There's no particular reason why it should be unfair as long as you make sure that the women all run the same gaffles, which wouldn't be too difficult. And is is a bit of an exaggeration to say

No other endurance sport tries to match women against men.

when biathlon mixed relay has just been added to the Winter Olympic programme, and triathlon also has mixed relays at a reasonably high level.

I think it could be a pretty fun addition to the programme, particularly from a spectator point of view - although if I had to choose, I would (along with most people here?) keep the traditional relay instead.

[awk]

And is is a bit of an exaggeration to say

No other endurance sport tries to match women against men.

when biathlon mixed relay has just been added to the Winter Olympic programme, and triathlon also has mixed relays at a reasonably high level.
I think it could be a pretty fun addition to the programme, particularly from a spectator point of view - although if I had to choose, I would (along with most people here?) keep the traditional relay instead.

Which all says more about the way the Olympics is going than anything else: It's A Knockout was fun for spectators as well - along with other great spectator events like Big Brother. It's a desperate pity that prostituting the sport to gain entry is the main driver for the IOF at present (at least from this viewer's angle). Although they're not alone - just take a look at what the UCI has been doing to Olympic cycling.

[Scott]

You can't really complain too much about the way the Olympics is going, though - if it wasn't TV friendly then the big corporate sponsors would all vanish pretty quickly, and you would be left with an event which would be even more cripplingly expensive that it is already.

To be fair, although some sports have adapted their Olympic programmes, most (not sure about cycling?) have at least left their (often much lower profile) world championships intact, which is why I think it would be a big mistake for orienteering to scrap the traditional relay - although, as I said, I think the sprint relay would be a good additional event, if one were needed.

If we are honest, although the sprint relay is much more media friendly than the current disciplines, the probability of foot-O getting into the Olympics any time soon is still pretty tiny (although ski-O, quite possibly as a mixed sprint relay, probably does stand a decent chance of getting into the Winter Olympics eventually).

[mappingmum]

I don't see how a mixed relay is a better spectator event than the same format relay for 2 separate categories, men and women? If the format works for spectators, then fine, do it. But I don't see the need to combine the competition by gender. Sounds like something Fred Goodwin would think of ie a cost cutting exercise.

[andypat]

I think it could be a pretty fun addition to the programme, particularly from a spectator point of view - although if I had to choose, I would (along with most people here?) keep the traditional relay instead.

It sounds like a gimmick to me - the mixed bit at any rate. It seems daft to have a category of event at the world champs that you just arent going to get elsewhere. I like sprint and I like relay. I can go for sprint relay. Cant see why they think it has to be mixed though. Change for the sake of change?

[Scott]

a cost cutting exercise

I agree, there's not much sporting justification for having it mixed, but (being cynical) I think the motivating factor is time rather than cost - four runners, 13min each (assuming the women's legs are appropriately slightly shorter than the men's), and the whole thing fits snugly into a one-hour TV programme. Two separate relays means twice as long, which I suspect would be rather less appealing to broadcasters - or running two relays simultaneously, but I think that would be both bad for the race and baffling for spectators.

[Ant W]

In Biathlon, there is a feeling that the mixed relay gives a chance to countries which otherwise don't have enough strength in depth to compete in a same-sex relay. Sweden, for example, has 2 top men and 2 top women, but the next 2 tail off a bit in the rankings. Not sure if this applies at all to orienteering?

[NeilC]

Online and TV coverage of orienteering has come on well in recent years to the point where you can follow it pretty well from home. I took Tuesday pm off this week to follow the sprint final which I reckoned would be the most spectator-friendly of the disciplines. I had the GPS coverage of the long on at work which was fascinating but required a more detailed understanding of the sport and of course went on for hours. When considering what would be the most entertaining form of orienteering to watch online I'm inclined to think that it would be a mass-start sprint relay. Even if individual laps were 10 minutes or less there is still plenty of scope to watch the pack split up on different gaffles or take different route choices, and for individuals to go wrong. The mass start city sprints have started to show what can be achieved but these still need the gaffles to split the pack up more. Add in a chopper or blimp's eye view and it could be really fun to watch. I've no fundamental objection to a mixed relay to decide the best orienteering nation (with the proviso that individual gaffles are men vs men or women vs women), no different really to deciding how many laps in a traditional relay (would the medals be the same in an eight person relay as in a three person?). It may seem like a gimmick but most of the crucial orienteering skills would still be tested and worthy winners would be crowned. Is this really a step too far in the (hopefully worthy) goal of making our sport more media friendly in the YouTube era (olympics or otherwise)?

[andypat]

I think what you need (for live coverage at least) is pre-prepared graphics and a knowledgeable analyst who can talk the viewer through the likely route choices and follow the GPS to see where competitors are going. This would mean that someone at least would have to have prior knowledge of the courses - not sure how flexible IOF would be on this?

In Biathlon, there is a feeling that the mixed relay gives a chance to countries which otherwise don't have enough strength in depth to compete in a same-sex relay. Sweden, for example, has 2 top men and 2 top women, but the next 2 tail off a bit in the rankings. Not sure if this applies at all to orienteering?

Its an argument but its not the only one. For example you could argue thats already why we have teams of 3 rather than 4 as in most athletics relays. You could also argue that the whole point of the relay is to demostrate the strength in depth of the countries.
My worry for mixed is that rather than create more clarity over which country is the winner (because you get one winner rather than 2) this will be a recipe for division and argument. eg if you have 3 top male athletes and one top female but the format is 2 and 2 for the mixed relay. The 2nd female is most likely to end up taking the blame for any failure, assuming all perform to their ability.