O-job

[graeme]

Fancy a move to Seattle?

http://www.mergeo.com/content/work-us

Yes, that really is $50 a pop for a corporate orange park or street-O. And yes they do seem to make enough money to hire people.

[Scott]

Spot the difference between this and this.

The answer appears to be that one of them has a custom-made map, while the other doesn't but costs roughly ten times as much to enter

[Although the American one also allows cyclists to enter - I rather like that idea, but am not sure whether it would be covered by BOF insurance ]

[Jayne]

There was definitely talk of Boris-Bike O.

[graeme]

Spot the difference

One gets about half the number of entrants that normal local events do, the other gets about double?

[Scott]

To be fair, a few of the larger London Street-Os have been pushing 100 competitors, which is a pretty good size for a local event, and is bigger than the smallest "Street Scramble" I can find, which had 62. But you're right, it doesn't really compare with the 581 individuals at this

[FRBlackSheep]

Spot the difference

One gets about half the number of entrants that normal local events do, the other gets about double?

So what your saying is, if we call it a daft name and charge the earth then we'd get more people...

[Becks]

Rat Race, Mud Run, Deerstalker....why not? All make way more money and attract way more 20-30s than O' does.

(Disclaimer: I obviously don't want fees to increase as I couldn't afford them, but exciting marketing of product can go a long way).

[SeanC]

I guess people may be prepared to pay more for Orienteering as an occasional "experience" rather than something that you do every week?

However marketing people say that making things too cheap can be counter-productive because those that might go because they think "this is cheap enough for me to afford" are outnumbered by those that don't go because they think "this is cheap - so it can't be much good". What this level is, i don't know.

Interesting to note that MerGeo are recruiting a full time Marketing Manager to promote just 40 events a year. There must be about 2000 orienteering events a year in the UK for which we have one marketing manager who works 3 days a week.

[AndyC]

Interesting to note that MerGeo are recruiting a full time Marketing Manager to promote just 40 events a year. There must be about 2000 orienteering events a year in the UK for which we have one marketing manager who works 3 days a week.

Plus an awful lot of volunteer effort within Clubs, some professional stuff for the Scottish Six Days (correct me if I'm wrong please) and I assume that it is included in Freefall's duties?

[andypat]

I guess people may be prepared to pay more for Orienteering as an occasional "experience" rather than something that you do every week?

I am pretty sure you are right - but we dont cater for that sort of person when we plan events - since we arent that sort of person. And yes - I wouldnt call it orienteering if I was setting up said event.

I got roped into doing a ratrace thing across Scotland this September by some non O mates who just like doing things for the challenge. Its costing me £200 and I'm pretty sure I wont be doing that on a regular basis!

[Scott]

[This post is partly in reply to the Value for money? thread, which is on a similar topic]

Quite unintentionally, within a couple of days we've had two interesting examples of races: one that an orienteering club could put on quite easily, another apparently a slightly inferior version of what some orienteering clubs already do, and both with entry fees that are pretty astronomical by (UK) orienteering standards.

It's worth noting that although these MerGeo chaps in America have some paid employees, they also seem to rely on volunteers, and they reward their volunteer team with free entry to all their races. Presumably when each race costs £15 to enter a free entry to every race is actually a rather good thing to have.

The point I was originally going to make with the footpath relay, but which applies equally to super-high-priced street score events, is that these events presumably make pretty large profits for relatively little effort - certainly less time and effort than organising a big "traditional" orienteering event. Given that orienteering potentially faces losing a fair amount of its funding, a few high-profile, high-profit, orienteering-lite races could potentially provide an income stream to plug help the gap and cross-subsidize "proper" orienteering activities.

This could also work on a club level: next time you need a couple of grand for some new SI kit, perhaps you should consider putting on a running relay around some local footpaths (with half-decent maps and electronic timing!). I know volunteers tend not to want to spend time putting on events that aren't of the type they themselves enjoy, but organising such a race could be a rather more entertaining way to raise the cash than spending hours and hours sweating over some grant application form that might just be rejected anyway.

But, as lots of other people have pointed out, it's all about the marketing hype, and good marketing would be key to making this sort of thing a success. Good marketing also seems to be something that both these events have in common - the footpath relay (and simultaneous solo race) even had a PR company to send a slightly OTT press released to the local media, and they managed to get BBC Radio Cornwall to basically devote the entire day's programming to it (with a "improving fitness" slant).

Marketing is also an area (let's be honest) where orienteering in the UK has rarely excelled - although it has got much better over the last five years or so. BOF's "Print Portal" in particular has helped vastly improve the quality of printed event flyers.

With BOF's "Whole Sport Plan" currently under review, perhaps this is a good time to be asking whether we should consider investing more heavily in some professional marketing for the sport as a whole. It would be a gamble, but if it worked, a professional marketing strategy could pay huge dividends - both in terms of finance and of people.

[graeme]

these MerGeo chaps in America

So I should maybe elucidate a bit... this isn't just something I found on the internet.

"Mergeo" is Eric Bone, the US' leading male orienteer for many years and a leading light in the Seattle O-club, Cascade. He gets the controls in the right place, the courses are challenging, and the decision not to make an ISSOM map is a conscious one - Eric is an excellent mapper, but (I think) believes the funny symbols would be offputting. They do rely on a volunteer team who get free/subsidised entry. And guess who the volunteer team is? Cascade OC.

Street Scramble has now spread to San Francisco, with ex-US team coach (or similar) Vladimir Gusiatnikov. He's the guy I quoted at length here...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11186&p=125152&hilit=Gusiatnikov
Their key observation is that there is a large group of people who want to run around with maps, but don't want to commit time to the organising, helping, clubbuilding stuff which we implicitly expect of any new members.

Orienteering is an unavoidably expensive sport. Most of us pay with our cheap labour, but paying in cash should be OK too.

[Scott]

the decision not to make an ISSOM map is a conscious one - Eric is an excellent mapper, but (I think) believes the funny symbols would be offputting.

To be fair, British steet score events (at least those now organised by several different clubs in southern England) also avoid ISSOM for exactly that reason. Most use customised black line maps, on the basis that OS's large-scale urban mapping tends to be equally incomprehensible and (at least in Central London) is often quite out-of-date.

But the street score events that I've been to (again, organised by several different clubs) have been marketed as a (very!) cheap way for people to get into "proper" orienteering and/or a fun way for proper orienteers to get a run in during the winter evenings, rather than as a Big Race in their own right. Which is fair enough, as most established orienteers (including those who organise them) would never consider them to be Big Race. But I can see how this format could be made to appeal to the occasional pay (a lot) & play crowd more than a major "proper" urban race with ISSOM maps etc.

[seabird]

But I can see how this format could be made to appeal to the occasional pay (a lot) & play crowd more than a major "proper" urban race with ISSOM maps etc.

The crowd of non-regular orienteers who turn up for our cheap and cheerful street and park night score events seem to take in their stride a mix of black and white street maps, ISSOM maps and Indeed ISOM maps, with changes of scale from I:4000 to 1:15000 from one event to another.

Not being sure quite what to expect from one race to another seems part of the entertainment and challenge.

[andy]

Orienteering is an unavoidably expensive sport. Most of us pay with our cheap labour, but paying in cash should be OK too.

Couldn't agree more