How to keep people involved in orienteering?

[Adrian]

So clubs have two choices ~ to continue to show full non-BOF member fees on the BOF data base so that the BOF website (when taking into account the discount statement), reads true, or just not to bother to record event fees on the BOF fixture record at all.

Sadly the latter option seems to be the route of choice for many clubs ~ if you want to know the event fees ( or the courses on offer) look at the club web site. The BOF fixtures system, for all it's bells and whistles. no longer holds sufficient data to make it worth reading . What a waste of time and money this has been.

Ah, is that why the BOF fixtures list is so rubbish. Every time I come to put the list in the WM newsletter I have to spend ages trawling the web for entry fees and other data that fixture secretaries can't be arsed to add to the BOF database.

[Clive Coles]

Quite correct Adrian ~ this is why the current fixture list is rubbish.

Try clicking on this link ( you may need to log on to BOF first)

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/index.php?pg=118

I wonder if there is a single event in the next month where the fee information is correct on the BOF database.

Most entries state either TBA or £0, a few more will state low fees like £2 or £3. I bet though, if you look at the web site for the clubs concerned these low fees will be flat fees ~ the £2 discount will not be offered. But the BOF web site entry will say £2 discount will be given ! So, in many cases the BOF site will be suggesting seniors get a cheaper run than the juniors !

Garbage in ~ garbage out. And BOF has used our money to get us to this sad state of affairs.

What sort of message does this give to those who contact BOF for information as to how to get involved ?

[Clive Coles]

Before I upset LEI the the fees for their event on Wednesday 29 June 2011 sems to have been set up correctly. There has to be an exception to my generalisations. Congrats.

[Sunlit Forres]

I can't see what the problem is. It takes about 5 mins to properly register an event. Here are the details for Moravian's event this Sat taken from the BOF Fixtures List. Hardly BOF's fault if club fixtures secs can't be arsed to input all the details.

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/i ... 10page%3D0

[mike g]

The problem is that the text at the top of this page http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/index.php?pg=80&action=fees&id=59698 is wrong for your event, as it will be for many events since last year's AGM decided that clubs don't have to provide a BOF discount at local events, and it can't be edited. The only way to include the correct information about entry fees is to put it under 'parking information', as your fixtures sec has done.

[Marco Polo]

I can't see what the problem is. It takes about 5 mins to properly register an event. Here are the details for Moravian's event this Sat taken from the BOF Fixtures List. Hardly BOF's fault if club fixtures secs can't be arsed to input all the details.

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/i ... 10page%3D0

Strictly speaking, it looks as if you are charging Students £4 for entry and BOF seniors £2- was that the intention?

[Paul Frost]

The problems discussed above with applying a discount/surcharge for members are another reason for simplifying the membership system.
It's one thing to try and encourage membership by making it cheaper for members, but it can make the publicity for events look a mess. Just look at the text we needed to use for the Scottish 6 Days:

For Adult UK Competitors only who are neither (i) National members of British Orienteering nor (ii) Local members of the Scottish Orienteering Association, we are obliged by British Orienteering to charge an additional £2 per day for the Age Class Courses.
This does not apply to juniors, students or foreign competitors, nor to colour coded entries.

I think it would be quite simple/reasonable for a local club event to just say
"EckO club members get £X pounds discount" if that's how the club wants to encourage membership.

Larger events are not likely to get many casual entries from non-orienteers so why confuse the issue?
In fact you could still offer the discount to the organising clubs members if you wanted, it would cause another admin problem with online entries though.

[greywolf]

I can't see what the problem is. It takes about 5 mins to properly register an event. Here are the details for Moravian's event this Sat taken from the BOF Fixtures List. Hardly BOF's fault if club fixtures secs can't be arsed to input all the details.

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/i ... 10page%3D0

Strictly speaking, it looks as if you are charging Students £4 for entry and BOF seniors £2- was that the intention?

And senior local club members with their own EMIT brikke can enter for free

[Sunlit Forres]

Strictly speaking, it looks as if you are charging Students £4 for entry and BOF seniors £2- was that the intention?

That's a fair point. I'll make sure our club adds some wording to the effect that "BOF discounts as shown above don't apply". Students will be getting junior rates from next year now that BOF have agreed to let clubs treat students as juniors for levy purposes.

We allow club-membership discount for junior and seniors alike at all of our local events. I think it's time that BOF left it up to clubs as to what discount to apply but one thing's for sure - membership should have benefits. If clubs consistently offer cheaper entries for members to ALL events (for juniors and seniors.... and students) it would provide a very good reason for joining.

[seabird]

Before I upset LEI the the fees for their event on Wednesday 29 June 2011 sems to have been set up correctly. There has to be an exception to my generalisations. Congrats.

Thanks for the prompt, Clive.

As a Club Fixtures Sec, for Level D events I usually put in the section for Family Group fees. "BOF discount does not apply." Checking revealed , I have got out of the habit recently. All now ship shape.

[Marco Polo]

Sunlit,

I should add that I think that MOR's approach is a perfectly reasonable. LEI did have this discussion about 3 months ago and I decided to take the defensive approach for our level Ds and continue to add the £2 because of the BOF text . However, it has the disadvantage of showing a headline price that few people will actually pay.

I agree that more flexibility is needed from the BOF site, and on balance would prefer to have the option of adding a surcharge for non members where needed. Another anomaly which affects LEI but not (probably not) MOR is that LBMs from neighbouring regions attract the full price. However it works, some discretion is often needed.

[SJC]

The £2 surcharge / discount appears as quite a large amount extra at local events, and the national / local membership only serves to confuse.

Assuming the system continues where every club member is also a BOF member (however this is achieved) then having a surcharge of £1 which applied to anyone who was not a member of a club/BOF would be easy to apply at every event whatever its level, and easy to explain to non-members.

[seabird]

the national / local membership only serves to confuse.

I often work on the registration team for our club, which borders onto another region.

I can't recall any checking of BOF membership cards (just as well as mine is languishing lost on a Greek island) or any attempt to distinguish between National and Local BOF members from other Associations. Neither would I want there to be any.

The distinction between National and Local membership becomes non-sensical for any orienteer who lives in a "border region" - which must be many.

[andy]

the only time there is a distinction between local and national that I've seen is when you're paying for entries online.

[Kitch]

I suspect that a there is a point here around what BOF is aiming to achieve by having the top down mebership structure.
They are trying to ensure maximum membership of BOF, whether this is the best approach for clubs has probably never been considered.
They are doing this to show the government backed funding bodies how big a sport Orienteering is (through official membership figures)
Also hopefully they'll be looking to show what a good job they are doing in growing the membership....
All in order to secure ongoing funding.

Much of what BOF does involves dancing to the tune of the paymasters.

Look at the Talent Pathway for O' and for other sports, you won't see much difference.

In Scotland some years ago athletics (in all its forms) was suddenly taken over by an entirely new body call Scottish Athletics. They introduced a SAL membership structure and fee that took no account of the well established club structure. All of a sudden SAL was issuing race licences (insurance) you had to be a member of SAL to run in one of these races, or pay a £2 surcharge.
There was absolutely no requirement to be a mamber of a club.
The clubs were not happy. Where did this organisation come from, what was its mandate ? It was a coup.
The clubs tried to reject the whole thing but somehow failed, I forget why.

Hill Running under the auspices of Scottish Hill Runners (an "informal " body working in the interests of the sport) decided to take their own tack. They arranged their own insurance for races so that organisers didn't have to go to SAL, therefore competitors didn't have to pay a levy, competitor's didn't have to join SAL, and could simply be club members (though that is not a requirement). The ethos is; come, run, enjoy.

There are no levies to SHR. Runners may choose to join SHR ( for just £8). People join because they want to, because they agree with the aims of SHR. The only situation where you are required to join SHR is if you want to take advantage of their race insurance (which presumably comes from the insurers). SHR does not charge the race for insurance. As a hill race organiser I have passed on some of the profit from races to SHR purely as a matter of altruism.
SHR has no paymasters other than its members and participants and is able to act as it sees fit in their interests.