EYOC 2011

[epocian]

I'm tempted to start a poll "Have you ever mispunched because you didn't check/misread the control code --Yes/No"

Go on then - My answer's Yes (and more than once!)

[PhilJ]

okay I admit (and so should many of you reading this thread), under 229's view I am idiot...on more than one occasion I have run to a control read the control code on the control stake "229" read my control description 229...and run AWAY from the control convinced it is not mine only to return 5/10 mins later to the same control cursing....punch 229 and carry on....reasons?? probably many, I'm no elite or sports psychologist...my idea why i did it...tired, oxygen debt, trying to "run away" from the guy on the my course who was chasing me down (put off by others), trying to catch the guy ahead on me on my course..I have had some experience in coaching juniors..not as much as 229 I admit...and checking your codes is one thing that is taught...I'll be taking the Welsh juniors to the JIRCS next weekend and my final piece of advise will be "check your control codes and enjoy it"

So back to the congratulations, I would like to add my "well done" to Florence, she came down to the SBOC Midsummer on Gower weekend, last weekend, and ran really well (as was Megan Carter Davies), very nice girls and a pleasure to be with..Florence stuffed me on the Blue course

[madmike]

Having once complained in Norway because I lost time when the number on the control was different from the number on the descriptions I was told by the conttroller that there was only 1 crag in the circle and plenty of contour detail so i should have known where I was and ignored the number!

SJC makes a good point - I seem to recall a planning guideline about not setting traps!

PS: according to 229's criterion (misguided or very misguided) I am an idiot!

[PhilJ]

SJC wrote

Having two controls so close together down the same dead end path was always going to lead to disqualifications

remembering back to the JK 2011 sprint I was on course 4 and as I approached control 3 (on the side of a building) I came across another control also very near the building side/corner, looking at routegadget it is on course 2, control 9..I admit I had a bit of a wobble and did meet other people doubling back etc..no idea if anyone mis-punched though for not checking their codes..routegadget is still up.

[buzz]

A few good individual performances but no overall team results to shout about in the relays today.

Katherine and Megan combined to put the D16's in 6th place after 2 legs, Matthew and Aidan had strong runs on 1st and 3rd legs in M16 and Florence and Rona picked up 11 places between them to bring the D18 team home in 8th place.

Thankfully no mispunches!

[IanD]

A recent event had two controls on similar features about 60.5 metres apart - numbers 169 and 196. Accidental, or a deliberate attempt to trap people into mis-punching. Who knows?

[118]

Great performance by Matt on the first leg of the M16, 3rd at the spectator. Both girls teams gave solid performances especially considering none of them were top years (8th for W18s with two 1st years and a 2nd year 16,and 11th(i think) for the three 1st year 16s. Fair few good individual performances in there.

[Kitch]

from your comments you don't have a clue about elite orienteering

I've watched some elite orienteering, it's like normal orienteering but faster.

.

Superb !

runnning the Olympic 100m final. Its just like running 100m, but faster.
running a marathon, its just like running to the corner shop, but further.
climbing everest, its just like going up Scafell Pike, but less oxygen.

[harry]

Well done to the EYOC team. Especially the ones who did "idiotic" things. If you are prepared to take up the challenge of trying to be the best you can be you will probably do a lot more idiotic things along the way.. and hopefully learn each time and get a little better. Some people learn faster than others..

I would much rather be out there taking up the challenge and doing dumb stuff and learning from it, trying to love the whole process, the ups, downs, occasional wins, crashing lows.. than just be one of those sitting at home calling some 16 year old an idiot.

I've been out there being an idiot in many different ways in many different races. It's not as easy as it looks or... it looks easier when you sit on your arse and look at the map / results and judge someone else's efforts. Just when you think you have it cracked some new challenges will crop up. You just try your best to tackle each one. Be open to the critics (there will always be plenty of critics) but keep your head up when some idiot calls you an idiot.

[Gnitworp]

Checking the Contol Code is a basic element and one that we all have to ingrain in our technique -so testing it in juniors is a valid exercise.
Getting it wrong is like a 180 degree error -we all do them and feel stupid but maybe we learn

No it isn't; checking the control code is far easier under race pressure (to forget) to do when your mind is on your navigation, which includes not running 180 degrees out.

[maprun]

20 out of 88 runners on the M18 course mispunched at 15. Good planning and controlling? Unfortunately the proportion speaks for itself!

[Homer]

I note from one GBR competitor's training log that the EYOC Long race was her first time on a 1:15,000 map.
Is it time 1:15,000 was the standard scale for M/W16 Long races in Britain?

[Ravinous]

Having lived and raced at elite level in Czech Rep. for a year and a half, I can say that it is standard practice for the planners to 'trick' competitors. This is seen as fair game to many. They have no rules about distance between controls like we and the IOF do. I was told they they dont have these rules in Norway so they why have them in Czech?
If I was briefing athletes before their run, I would be stressing this - treat it like a relay and check codes rigorously. (But we are only human at the end of the day.)

Arrival of athletes in time to do the model would seem wisest. Flying the am the day before the race and getting on the model in the pm in time for the first race the next day would seem optimal to me for folks who lack time and money. If you have not been to Czech before, I think you learn a lot from this. You can only get so much from looking at old maps and You tube clips. You also want to be recovered from your travel. I think if an athlete wanted to go out early, they should have brought it up with the Team Manager in advance. I am sure it would not have been forbidden.

I feel that if there are 4 places, we should be sending four - sorry to hear of a non-travelling reserve staying at home when there would have been place for him/her at the event. Czech is cheap - self-funding would not have been that expensive.

I think I have told this story before and it is perhaps typical of the Czech mentality. I shall rant about it here for those interested.....!
Czech long distance Championsips in 2005 or 6. After qualifying in Saturdays heat (4 heats and 6 qualify), on Sunday I am 16km round a 17.5km course. I pile into an area of green peppered with several small distinctive yellow clearings. I am pretty shafted but running hard towards a top 10. I find a clearing and punch. 169 and progress to the finish. I am DQ'ed as I should have punched 168 which is also on a clearing. I go back to the forest and measure the distance to the control I should have punched - 17metres. The clearing I punched had a half centre-meter ride going into it and that was 'ride end'. 5 others did the same and that is 20% of the field. Even Thomas Dlabaja who was going to be a medallist. His attitude was 'oh it's fine, it was a trick and I didn't spot it' I thought it unfair and protested. OMG! The response and annoyed faces. I dont think they had had a protest before. People don't seem to protest in Czech!? There was such an air of superiority of 'we know best, who do you think you are, etc etc.' So they got together a jury and eventually said the results stand as they dont have distance rules between controls and the similarity of number was not unfair in their opinion. However, they would 'look into the rules'. I can imagine nothing changed... It was interesting looking at the all controls map: a big 1:15 map with controls spread across, and most not really near another. But two controls stuck out like a sore thumb. Why, because they were practically on top of each other, overlapping... They originally had one control there but the controller said that it was overloaded and they needed an alternative to split up runners. So the planner came up with the above solution. The controller must have agreed it. I am not sure how 17m apart avoids the overloading so much but I have problems calling myself and the 4 other DQ's that day idiots when there were, imho, bigger idiots at the event!!
I would have hoped that EYOC as a IOF? event would have had a good IOF SEA to control the Czechs to some fair courses, with minimal trickery.
It has to be remembered that we in the UK have one opinion of O (ie planning is not meant to trick competitors) but other nations might not think the same. Who is right? Why should they follow IOF guidelines?
What is important is that you have to make sure you know the rules you are playing to when you start the race. Juniors need this help and guidance more than most to avoid mps and dsqs in the early stages of their international carriers.

I hope the GB Juniors had a good trip and enjoyed themselves.

[JK]

I have just been looking at the Routegadget for the Sprint:
http://ob.tmapserver.cz/scripts/reitti. ... 360&kieli=

Take a look at M18 winner's route from 2-3 - any comments? ISSOM 304.1 ? Was there a protest?

Regarding checking control descriptions:
* In Middle and Long, checking descriptions (not just the number) should I believe be part of well-taught good technique to speed the time in and out of controls.
* In Sprint it does take time (not a lot, but "not a lot" x20 is a lot in Sprint!) to check codes when you are busy planning next leg and things like that and so many people (myself included don't always bother if I am happy the control is mine).
* If you don't check codes and get it wrong then you are not an idiot, but you can't blame anyone else, you have made a double error, been at the wrong control AND not checking the code.
* In international competition it is very easy to make basic mistakes when you are concentrating on more complicated issues. Typical examples being running past a control at a crossing point or punching the wrong control. (or for my case in Trail-O running over time at last year's WTOC)
* If you make such a basic mistake then you are allowed to call yourself an idiot, but you don't need anyone else rubbing the salt in!

JK (who punched 229 instead of 239 at a recent urban event, controls being about 15m apart on similar features - and yes - I did check the code but with the rain on my glasses, map, control number and description sheet it looked right!)

[IanD]

I have just been looking at the Routegadget for the Sprint:
http://ob.tmapserver.cz/scripts/reitti. ... 360&kieli=

Take a look at M18 winner's route from 2-3 - any comments? ISSOM 304.1 ? Was there a protest?

I don't believe people should be disqualified on the evidence of RouteGadget. It's too easy to make a mistake transcribing the course.
But if the guy was witnessed to cross the not-to-be-crossed waterway, or if it is evident from an infeasibly quick split, then of course he has gained an advantage by breaking the rules and must be DQ'ed.