British Orienteering Governance Review

[roadrunner]

NC asks - "What Hoops?"
As I understand it (perhaps wrongly) if I want to organise a training night for our club members, I must first-
1 Go on a coaching course (up to light green standard).
2 Carry out a series of training sessions at that standard over 1/2 years and keep a record of these.
3 Go to a class 2 orienteering coaching course to take me up to green/blue standard
4 Write to the land owner for permission
5 Notify BOF that a training event will be held on such and such a day
6 Complete a safety audit and send to BOF
Then of course I have to organise the event as well.
By comparison if I want to organise a group outing with either of the two running groups I belong to, in any of the same areas, I send out an e-mail, we meet up and we go for a training run, on path and/or off.
One group - we meet up on a Thursday, ask where are we going tonight, pick a circuit and go for a training run. No doubt running clubs all over the country do the same thing.
Simple, isn't it.

Well, you can't really argue with number 4 - of course, you don't need this for a running group as you're presumably sticking to rights of way or open access land (for England - I know Scotland is a bit different here). How would the others change if you registered it as an orienteering event rather than a training session? In the short term, I don't think organisers or planners have to have done any training (though this will probably change), and as a low-key event you don't need a formal controller either, though someone has to sign off a risk assessment I think.

[John Morris]

No, Mrs H, it's not a whip crack.

It's the ominous noise created by a man sitting on a branch sawing the tree off.

Just like 20 years ago...

(And I think that's less than twenty words?)

Heh, heh! It's nice to be back...

[frog]

Taybank has forgotten the first aid certificate that all coaches must have.
I remeber when I was in CLOK one of the members used to lead a regular training session on the North York moors. It usually involved a warm up jog then a series of short sprints, running through heather, hill sessions etc. I' don't think permission was asked as no controls were put out and people ran and walked in those areas anyway, but I bet now with BOF regulations he'd need a coaching certificate and first aid certificate and to do a risk assessment for each event.
When does an informal training session become a coaching session?
I doubt CLOKs sessions were registered with BOF (this was in the early 90s). Do informal sessions like this need registering? They are in many ways similar to the sessions Carnegie Harriers organise twice a week, sometimes on playing fields, sometimes on roads, sometimes on the hills. No-one does much paperwork or goes on special courses there.
Perhaps I perceive there being more obstacles in the way of informal training sessions than there really are.

[awk]

Taybank has forgotten the first aid certificate that all coaches must have.

This was the straw that broke this camel's particular back. When I last came to renew my licence to practise, I was told that I would need to do an extra qualification, as my First Aid at Work certificate was not sufficient, as there wasn't a strong enough outdoor element. Fair enough, but I wasn't, and am not, prepared to commit even more time to days in a classroom (I'd only volunteered to do the FAW because it meant I got my fees paid for my employers to cover first aid whilst coaching, and am now stuck with it!).

I thoroughly enjoyed coaching, but the time all the background stuff takes is now simply too much; I do want to orienteer occasionally (!). That is the sole reason I have not renewed, and talking around other ex-coaches, I'm by no means the only one.

[Gross]

That is the sole reason I have not renewed, and talking around other ex-coaches, I'm by no means the only one.

Think I'm going down the same road.... can't be ar*ed with some of the stuff now

Seems a shame to waste my experience which includes controlling World Student Champs, Planning & Controlling BOC, Scottish, BEOC, Scottish 6 Days, setting up NEDS & SEDS, working with Team GB and lots of other stuff like being a BOF Councillor, Vice President of SOA & SOA Committee Member for many, many years

But sod it.... too many hoops & too many non-orienteers telling us what to do

[Adrian]

The bosses control the purse-strings though. BOF is going to set up dozens of community O schemes over the next two years, all of which will need qualified coaches, and not all of us can afford to turn down the money

[awk]

The bosses control the purse-strings though. BOF is going to set up dozens of community O schemes over the next two years, all of which will need qualified coaches, and not all of us can afford to turn down the money

By "all of us" do you mean coaches or clubs?

[Adrian]

By "all of us" do you mean coaches or clubs?

Coaches.

[ChristineV]

But sod it.... too many hoops & too many non-orienteers telling us what to do

The only non-orienteer I can think of is Mike Hamilton and he's worth his weight in gold.

Christine

[awk]

By "all of us" do you mean coaches or clubs?

Coaches.

I don't think it's an issue if one is doing it as a paid job - I'm sure everybody has had times when they've needed to do something that they thought wasn't best use of their time but their employers have - it's certainly happened to me (including when working for BOF). Of course, if self-employed, best use of time can equate to time paid! The bigger concerns come in when using volunteer time and club resources.

ChristineV - Mike may be one of the few non-orienteers involved from within the sport (although there are one or two others), but there are plenty from outside the sport, given that BOF is so reliant on external funding.

[NeilC]

The only non-orienteer I can think of is Mike Hamilton and he's worth his weight in gold.
Christine

Though if you read down this thread
http://www.scottish-orienteering.org/soa/page/how-should-orienteering-be-governed/#comments
You will see that he has recently really p***ed off one group of hard working volunteers.

[Gross]

The only non-orienteer I can think of is Mike Hamilton and he's worth his weight in gold.

Christine

Just looked at the staff on BOF website and of all the pretty face pictures at least 10 belong to non-orienteers.....

[madmike]

Yes Gross it is 10 of the staff shown on the website but 9 of your 10 are in admin/support roles not telling us what to do and the other is Mike as per Christine's post!

[Gross]

Yes Gross it is 10 of the staff shown on the website but 9 of your 10 are in admin/support roles not telling us what to do and the other is Mike as per Christine's post!

So all these participation type people etc etc don't count? They are all part of the paid staff at BOF... they all have an input into how the sport is run.... don't tell me that Mike H sits and instructs everyone what & how to carry out their role... Christine is correct... Mike is worth his weight in gold... maybe we should clear out the rest & Mike can run BOF singlehanded

But the most inspiring thing in weeks (jumping from another thread) was the Jukola start on the front of Nope... but I guess that's proof that orienteering has no spectator appeal... oh... wonder how much of a bonus the Halden guys get for winning?

[andypat]

A lot of the arguments on this thread and on the SOA website are way above me. As an average orienteer in the forest, my main concern over the next few years is whether or not we can afford BOF in its current structure. I understand Mike Hamilton has a wealth of experience in other sporting contexts, but I wonder if other similar sports to orienteering (in terms of participation) have similar sizes of governing body?

My worry is that the infrastructure in terms of the head office, focus etc, seem out of line with the level of expected income going forward. If that is the case then is the review looking a the right areas?

The sporting analogy I can understand is of the lower division football club chairmen spending above their means to try and become a premier club. What happens if you fail to achieve your goal and youve run out of money?