Scottish Championships 2011

[andypat]

I'm at work now so cant check but I thought the closing time was on the description? I vaguely remeber checking this at some point during my run before deciding to call it a day. Having said that I cant imagine Jon being wrong so probably I was in such Oxygen debt that I hallucinated it - that and the nice hot bath I saw around about control 14

[Electrocuted]

When I've been involved we always collect the early controls first, and never the finish at closing time if there are still runners out.

Really? I seem to remember the last loop of controls on my course being collected when I was still out at the Scottish Relays in Strathmashie 2 years ago. The worst thing was, it was about half an hour before courses closed.

[graeme]

surrounded by desparate ladies.

With starts delayed by 20mins for a computer glitch, it was a bit odd not to delay the mini-mass starts too. And the ladies last leg was, by all accounts, worth waiting for with three runners swapping the lead back and forth.
I'm a fan of big mini-mass starts (done several at Jukola, they're brilliant, especially compared with setting-out-on-your-own-an-hour-down as happens in the UK).

[frog]

I agree that if we are going to have elite courses with winning times of over 100 minutes, meaning some elites will be over 2 hours then we have to either put W and M21 elite and long runners in the first half of the starts, or keep the finish open for longer to accomodate the longer lengths. The former is probably better for volunteers manning the finish and bringing in controls who may have had an early start to the day anyway and be tired.
Looking at the results many of the longer male classes also took over 2 hours, Graeme was the only M35L bloke to finish in under 2 hours. Not sure if radios were available at the individuals like they were at the relays but if so someone at results could have radioed the finish team and told them of the longer times and asked them to keep the finish and final controls out until 6

[andy]

Please don't take the moral high ground regarding the assistance of your club on the day to this event.

Ouch!

I don't think being a helper should have anything to do with it. If you started legitimately then you should always be allowed to finish. If the controller then decides to disallow the finish time because of being late then fair enough, but on Saturday no controller would have made that decision.

[andypat]

If you started legitimately then you should always be allowed to finish.

Erm - so the actual function of a course closing time is......?

Maybe we should adopt a system similar to pubs, where you have a last orders bell 15 min before chucking out time?

[andy]

Erm - so the actual function of a course closing time is......?

when the courses close? but if someone is still out the finish should remain out. When they are known to be back safely (whether at finish or otherwise) then the finish can be brought in. I've been in 6 day fields after everyone else has gone home with no run in left, a single car load of (worried) friends, a (very) worried organiser/planner and a single finish unit to register them as safe when they get there, there's no reason not to leave a finish unit out. If the controller wants them to be dsq then it's easily done manually.

[VCA]

Many many people from ESOA clubs invested a full day to the cause. Some people (for example those from TAY) helped on both Saturday and Sunday. The car park at Cultybraggan was heaving with helpers at 10 am when your minibus was still south of the Forth Road Bridge.

I find it hilarious that you have decided to mock students about helping at the scottish champs. EUOC made it clear that we were hindered by having to rent a minibus and that we had previous plans (AGM etc.) We left Edi at the earliest possible time (9:20am if you must know). When we arrived I wouldn't exactly have called Cultybraggan "heavy" with helpers at 10 am. Rather I'd call it depleted and a mess. Expecting students (mostly beginners) to run the show at the scottish is poor planning on that behalf. The event organizer was very helpful and understanding but it looked liked we were in dire need. We all did help and I think it should have been reasonable that one of our promising beginners should be allowed to finish W21L.
Not much too ask for there is it?

[Freefall]

I'm with you on this VCA. Please can I put in an early request for help with next year's JK too?

[Gross]

I have just read Graeme's planning comments for the relay on the SOA website... the biggest c****p seems to be that no decision was made on the location of the Scottish Champs individual or relay until very late on & a draft map wasn't available until mid April!!!

What happened to the SOA's long term planning? Why were things left so late? Maybe the strength of the undergrowth would have been know if the planner / controller had been out in the forest 12 months before...

As things stand it looks like orienteering was fortunate to have a Scottish Champs in 2011 what with one thing or another

[EddieH]

Electrocuted wrote:

[quote]Really? I seem to remember the last loop of controls on my course being collected when I was still out at the Scottish Relays in Strathmashie 2 years ago. The worst thing was, it was about half an hour before courses closed.[/quote]

And yes I was the planner, and yes it did happen. I was devastated and made every attempt to tell you so. I cannot remember the detais now, but I do know it was an error on my behalf. I sent control collectors out for the early controls, and I either allocated the wrong set of controls or gave the collector the wrong time, I don't remember which.

[Freefall]

... no decision was made on the location of the Scottish Champs individual or relay until very late on & a draft map wasn't available until mid April!!!

What happened to the SOA's long term planning? Why were things left so late? Maybe the strength of the undergrowth would have been know if the planner / controller had been out in the forest 12 months before...

As things stand it looks like orienteering was fortunate to have a Scottish Champs in 2011 what with one thing or another

Scottish Champs doesn't quite fit in with my remit apart from as a Nopesport contributor but I do know that there was long term planning in relation to the areas. Unfortunately in the real world problems do arise and I am aware of significant access issues so indeed we were fortunate to have a Scottish Champs, especially the Relays.

I would also comment that even looking at the undergrowth 12 months ago would not necessarily have been a reliable indicator of undergrowth this year. I ran at Dallaschyle a few weeks ago and the feeling there was that the vegetation seemed a month further on than expected. This is possibly true across Scotland, and the gales last week were certainly a weather event nobody could have predicted.

My thanks go out to everyone who helped out at the weekend - it cannot have been much fun at times in the rain and wind.

[frog]

As an ESOA committee member we did try planning the Scottish champs 2 years in advance but seemed dogged with problems. Initially it was to be south of Edinburgh but something happened so we couldn't use that area (can't remember what now) so we looked for alternatives many of which had problems with sufficient parking or access, or too much undergrowth.
We then thought about Auchingarrich but initially it was still being considered for the JK in 2012 and that took priority.
Once we had the go ahead for Auchingarrich for the individual we looked for a nearby relay. Twenty Shilling wood was looking likely, but it has several landowners but one of them decided late on (after implying it would probably be OK) that we couldn't use it as they wanted to shoot on that day.
We then looked at Drummond which was a new area needing completely mapped and it took a while to persuade the landowner that orienteers wouldn't wreck his land and even now we don't know if he'll ever let us use the map again.
So, the lateness of the relay location wasn't through lack of trying to find somewhere.

[AlanB]

I personally enjoyed my job of sitting at a road crossing in the rain for two hours, while not seeing a single competitor or car...

You definitely were at the right location?

[andypat]

We then thought about Auchingarrich but initially it was still being considered for the JK in 2012 and that took priority.

PLease no........