Oh no not another British Sprints format thread

[Gross]

We did a survey following the 2008 JK, one of the questions being

So, 286 were for and 280 were against - not really strong enough support for a change. Maybe views have changed since then ...

But would using AV change the results significantly & turn the JK into an Urban Festival?????

[Gnitworp]

It's up to you "middle" fans to show there's a market for running 30 minutes in terrain* - I'm not seeing it.

30 minutes for the winner only. Shouldn't everyone have their own private Middle Race tailored to their ability that takes them 30-35 min to be running a true Middle Race?(semi )

[graeme]

We should consider changing the JK programme so that all competitors have the same options as the Elite...

Which was a very leading question of course. Consider the opposite...
We should not consider changing the JK programme...

Well, I certainly wouldn't agree with that. You should consider changes, and then decide whether they're a good idea or not. And they're not options either - another bit of positive spin in the question. You should have asked a neutral question where the answer gives a mandate for action, e.g.

We should change the JK programme so that for all competitors Friday is a Sprint day, Saturday provides a Middle race and Sunday provides the Long race. The Relay remains on Easter Monday

Notice that this is a shorter question, which is a sure sign that the original is intentionally leading, rather than trying for clarity.

Middle isn't just a shorter version of Long,

Did anyone think this year's BOC-middle was anything other than the best possible course of the required distance in that terrain? I certainly had a good mix of long legs, short legs, fast bits, slow bits, physical bits and technical bits, just as I would expect from a classic green course. But I haven't heard any complaints about the planning style...

[Gnitworp]

....and you might have done if controls had been added in a gratuitous attempt to make it so called 'middle style'.

[King Penguin]

I agree it wasn't "true middle", but I thought it made excellent use of the area, I thoroughly enjoyed it and I would not complain or comment negatively on any aspect of the event. What more can we ask for ? We have to recognise that areas are different and tailor the planning accordingly. e.g. some areas do not lend themselves to a true long leg, as they would just become an obvious path run, so don't force them to include one.
I'd rather have a great course that suits the area (and possibly not the guidelines) than one which sticks rigidly to the guidelines and is a disappointment.

[pete.owens]

Middle isn't just a shorter version of Long,

Did anyone think this year's BOC-middle was anything other than the best possible course of the required distance in that terrain?

Yes, just as those of us who are enthusiasts for middle races would have it.

I certainly had a good mix of long legs, short legs, fast bits, slow bits, physical bits and technical bits,

... a couple major 1kmish route choice legs?

just as I would expect from a classic green course. But I haven't heard any complaints about the planning style...

Perhaps because the planning style was according to the actual guidelines - rather than the parody of an extended control pick exercise portrayed by certain sceptics of the discipline.

[pete.owens]

Further to the middle/long debate.

Take a look at an area that is very well suited to middle distance planing,
Cademan & Thringstone.

This was used for the Middle Distance Champs in 2009:
http://www.leioc.routegadget.co.uk/leio ... =26&kieli=
and there are some really excellent courses. Now you could claim that course 1 was a just a classic blue, course 4 a classic green and so on - indeed if you look at the courses for the EM champs this year:
http://www.leioc.routegadget.co.uk/leio ... =26&kieli=
you can see that the style of planning is very similar (though there are attempts to find the best options for as long as possible legs). I would turn the argument on its head and say that the more recent classic courses are really a set of extended middle races - even up to the 34 control brown course. While they are still very good courses, still making the best use of the terrain - would you choose that venue to hold the British long distance champs?

[graeme]

... a couple major 1kmish route choice legs?

Since you ask, the longest leg on my course was about 15% of the course with plenty of route choice, just as I would expect in any well planned classic race, be it green, M45, M21E or WOC. I'd be perfectly happy to use that course for the British long distance champs for, say, W55.

[awk]

Regarding AWK's last post I read it as assuming that the majority do not want the change made this year.

I was very careful to word it so that it did not imply that - you are, I suggest, taking my well known views and imposing them on what I said.

I would be much more accepting of the new format if there had been evidence of strong support in favour of the new format from those who compete in sprints. I've seen none, and think it was a mistake by those responsible not to ascertain what the views of competitors are/were. On a purely anecdotal basis, i've certainly seen far more support for the old format than the new expressed, but that may well be, as you say, simply the view of a relatively small number of vocal Nopesport contributors (such as myself!).
What I know for sure is that you can't take the numbers attending the sprints as any vote of cofidence for (or against) the new format - there are too many variables involved (not least the advent of the UK Masters).

Did anyone think this year's BOC-middle was anything other than the best possible course of the required distance in that terrain?

Well, it certainly had a much higher density of controls than I would normally expect from a standard event, so I suppose my answer is yes (but still think it was an excellent course, in an area well suited to middle distance).

[DJM]

Interim results from the recent British Sprint/Middle survey:-

It is preferable to combine the Elite and non-Elite Championships into a single competition

86 Strongly Agree
61 Agree
28 Neutral
12 Disagree
6 Strongly Disagree

It is preferable for the non-Elite classes to have the same qualification + final system as the Elite. NB the previous system was that each runner had two Sprint Distance races on the day, the overall results being decided by the sum of the two race times.

59 Strongly Agree
58 Agree
51 Neutral
13 Disagree
7 Strongly Disagree

[awk]

Interim results from the recent British Sprint/Middle survey:-

Even allowing for a possibly skewed market, thats a strong vote in favour of the merged format. As I said, its a pity it wasn't done before, but better late than never! (As would be expected, I strongly disagreed with the first, but I strongly agreed with the second).