MTBO in IOF mag! Why like/dislike MTBO?

[Rockaldo]

if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all'!!

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[Dave]

Cutting through is slow. Marshes are bad. Green is bad. Big thick solid black lines = good!

This nice summary you've given might be why people refer to this as 'simple', 'easy' or 'boring'

I however, refuse to comment.

[awk]

Cutting through is slow. Marshes are bad. Green is bad. Big thick solid black lines = good!

This nice summary you've given might be why people refer to this as 'simple', 'easy' or 'boring'. I however, refuse to comment.

Aside from the fact you have (!), I wouldn't have thought of this as an attempt at a summary of MTBO.
Emily - I don't think you'll find it's just MTBO that gets discussed along these lines: sprint/urban racing receives similar treatment at times and, like you, there is a growing group of aficionados who think those commentators have got it badly wrong. Which all goes to suggest that by putting some 'proper' MTBO on (as opposed to trailquests etc.), you should have a good chance of getting the number of MTBO aficionados to grow too. One of those very rare occasions I wish I lived in the south!!

[King Wayne]

the fast thinking required and the speed at which one travels on a bike, making the navigation more challenging

Most of the time cycling is faster than running, so it is true that decisions have to made faster in MTBO than Foot-O. However these decisions are very simple; which path do I need out of this junction? This obviously limits the technical challenge. In fact once the route choice has been made the ''left or right'' decision is the only technique which needs to be executed. These decisions occur less frequently than Foot-O where constant change of direction is required to get the best line. Path junctions do not appear every 20m or so do they?

My point is yes, the decisions need to be made quickly but this does not make the navigation more challenging than Foot-O where many different techniques can be utilised in any one leg, also at very high speeds if you want to win

[guest960504]

Aside from the fact you have (!)

I used to be an English teacher and Dave's post is a hypothesis not a comment. A comment is a clear statement of opinion. He did not give his opinion. I'm also interested in your use of the exclamation mark in brackets.

[Another180]

Alright Folks? Mind if I join the chat?!

Oh no.

[229]

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[Roger]

I've been unable to run all winter and I've been doing a lot of cycling. This has included four MTBO events and eight Trailquests.

The Trailquests (score events) have had a fair bit of road riding. At some venues this dominates: in one pleasant corner of Leicestershire, where the planner had done a good job with what was available, the few bridleways were quagmires and I'd have done better with a road bike and a pair of trainers. It's quite common for the pin punches to go missing so sometimes they're hidden, and the written descriptions have varying degrees of precision. There's no controller and the controls aren't always in the right place [edit: to be fair, only three out of about 160 that I've been to were wrong; two slightly, one considerably]. The OS 1:50,000 maps aren't perfect, either, and of course don't show how rideable the off-road choices are: must be a bit like the early days of orienteering. And, at least in the Midland Trailquests, you nearly always get the control location (though not the scores) in advance and GPS navigation is allowed, so perhaps 20-30% of the competitors (not me!) have an illuminated version of the race map on their handlebars showing where they are relative to the controls. There's talk of issuing all riders with data-loggers (Holux 1200E, £33-£55) and requiring a button-press instead of using a pin punch, thus avoiding problems with punches being removed and also opening the possibility of disqualifying people who've used footpaths. The Trailquests would then leapfrog mainstream orienteering in using technology.

Despite the various aspects that seem odd to a 'traditional' orienteer, I've had some fun with these, have finished reasonably well up the results lists and eight lots of three hours hard cycling with navigation thrown in, in parts of the country that I probably wouldn't have gone to otherwise, has been much better than moping at home wishing that I could have gone to XXOC's level Y event.

The MTBO events have been the four that Emily mentions: three MBO South ones and the Military Challenge. These have had hardly any road so the cycling has been much harder work: average heart-rate ~15 bpm higher. The maps and control placement are much more reliable than for the Trailquests. Apart from some worrisome failing brakes at Swinley (Star Posts), my main problem has been reluctance to stop to look at the map, doubtless arising from foot-O experience. Maybe the good people can read the map on twisty and bumpy trails and still avoid the trees (Emily?) but I can't. Needing both hands on the handlebars most of the time also means that it's impossible to thumb the map, so skills carefully nurtured over 25 years of orienteering have probably been hampering me. At Swinley I kept mislocating myself, sometimes deciding after a quick glance that I was on the wrong track when actually I was correct, then turning off to 'correct' the 'error'.

Because all the mistakes are ones that I'd be embarrassed to admit to if I were running, I've never got to the finish of the MTBO events and felt happy with my navigation. And although I do have a mountain bike that isn't an utter hindrance, there's always an element of the 'arms race' for better equipment that turns me off competitive cycling and turns me towards the simplicities of just running.

So Trailquests: take them with a pinch of salt and enjoy them for what they are, even if you ride them as hard as you're able to. MTBO: try it, but recognise that not all your orienteering skills will transfer smoothly and there's some learning to do on what the various trail rideabilities mean for route-choice.

I'm just grateful that some organisers have enabled me to indulge in some physically-demanding navigation competitions this winter when I could have been lounging on the sofa in the warm and dry. At least, I think I'm grateful...

[lostlad]

there's always an element of the 'arms race' for better equipment that turns me off competitive cycling and turns me towards the simplicities of just running.

this is one of the points that would keep me away too. to be competitive in mtbo I imagine you would have to spend probably in excess of £1k on kit (maybe Emily can confirm?) whereas with foot o you can spend less than £200...

[DIDSCO]

why don't they have standard issue mountain bikes at the big races in mtbo to make it fair for everyone, sounds like the bigger the wad of cash in your pocket the bigger medal you're likely to get.....is that individual sport at its finest?

I suggest one of these bmx bandits as standard issue: http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/mongoose/31858

think using that beast and your map skills E.T might not need to phone home for help next time

[EBenham]

Maybe the good people can read the map on twisty and bumpy trails and still avoid the trees (Emily?) but I can't

There have been a few bruised fingers from 'into tree' riding!

I imagine you would have to spend probably in excess of £1k on kit (maybe Emily can confirm?) whereas with foot o you can spend less than £200...

A good bike is certainly beneficial, and a 8.5kg super light race bike is even better, but the advantage is minimal. But, if you pulled your bike out of the shed covering in dust with a rusty chain and a flat tyre, then you would be at a slight disadvantage ...!
I'm still riding a mid-range race bike which will be 4 years old this year (has recently had a long stay in bike hospital for many replacements ...) but it still works well. I prefer to train my legs to make them faster and stronger, and improve my bike handling skills (as well as scaring myself $*%@less on some descents), and working on the psychological elements. Of course if someone offered to buy me the Whyte 19C XX, I wouldn't say no ...

When you find a sport so fantastic it must be hard to understand why others don't love it as much as you!

Actually, I don't have a problem with people disliking MTBO etc, everyone is entitled to their opinions of the sport. I just dislike it when negative comments are aired so freely which doesn't really promote a positive image of a small (but definitely growing) sport.

[awk]

Aside from the fact you have (!)

I used to be an English teacher and Dave's post is a hypothesis not a comment. A comment is a clear statement of opinion. He did not give his opinion. I'm also interested in your use of the exclamation mark in brackets.

And as an expert in English you will recognise that by adding such a comment to the end of his post worded in such a way, Dave was in fact implicitly commenting. Which is why the explanation mark was there.

My (limited) experience also suggests that King Wayne is underestimating the technical demands. Yes, the fine navigation may not be as demanding (although I've been to foot-O events recently where its been pretty non-existent at times!), but other elements (such as route choice) can be more so. And things happen much faster!

[Zokko!]

Before 2011 the largest MTBO event in the UK (excluding the Military Challenge in Dec) was the 2009 British MTBO champs at Wareham Forest with 81 competitors.
The Southern Series have had 3 events so far this year, with the largest event attracting 94 competitors (Moors Valley, Wimborne Orienteers, 26th March). The second largest was the 19th March at Swinley Forest as organised by BKO with 91 athletes racing.
(the first event on 22nd Jan was at the time the 2nd largest UK event with 74 people).

I couldn't let these biggest UK MTBO event numbers go unchallenged. It's a while since I did any MTBO but I was sure there were more at the Peel Adventure series events a few years ago so I looked up some results: http://www.emituk.com/results/mtbo2003/20030308/index.htmThere were 158 competitors in that event. Admittedly 14 of those were on the Novice Score, but all the rest had cross-country courses on a special MTBO version of the Cannock Chase map, as far as I can tell to similar standards as current events. Almost twice as many as the 2009 champs. Has the Peel Adventure Series been lost to MTBO memory? Well done for getting more MTBO events on the calendar, and I look forward to competing again if we get more in the North, but let's not forget that the discipline was at least as popular 8 years ago.

[EBenham]

Some time last year I spent a while searching for previous results. I knew the Peel series had been popular but couldn't find any results!

When the Peel series stopped (in about 2005/6??) there were far fewer events and interest dropped. My figures were only based on events from 2007 onwards...

Thanks for that!

But even so, last year many events organised in the south attracted 20 competitors. In this respect, 94 is a positive improvement!

[lilywhite]

That particular event probably wasn't the best example to use since it was the only time MTBO was included in the normal orienteering UK cup series.